Test E + Deca recommendations?

[Rip_Peck]

I am in my late 30’s and I have been lifting since I was 17 with a few breaks here and there. I am 5’11", ~12-15% BF, and my weight fluctuates around ~210 - 225. I have hit plateaus several times and this is usually due to joint and tendon pain. Between lifting and my physically demanding job my joints and connective tissue have taken a beating. I have been interested in doing a cycle for several years (which includes Deca - no if ands or buts).

I am asking you experienced folks to steer me in the right direction in adjusting my cycle. And by all means I am not trying to be rude, but I ask that you please refrain from posting other cycles that don’t include Deca, or telling me that I should do a Test E only cycle first. My decision is set in stone. I am looking for pointers on a Test E + Deca cycle only.

After scouring the web for common Test E + Deca cycles and filtering through page after page of “Don’t do test + deca, just do test” posts, I ran into this cycle:

Week 1-14 500mg Test E
Week 1-12 400mg Deca
Week 1-16 Armidex .5mg E3D + Cabergoline .5mg E3D
Week 8-16 HCG 250 IU E3D
–Week 17-20 PCT-- Clomid/Nolva/Aromasin
Week 17 100/20/6.25 ED
Week 18 100/20/6.25 ED
Week 19 50/10/6.25 ED
Week 20 50/10 ED/6.25 EOD

The main areas that I am asking for help in adjusting are the AI and PCT. Or anything I should include or exclude. I am willing to replace Armidex with Aromasin, as long as you recommend a dosage that fits into the cycle.

If you have a link or recommendation for a better Test E + Deca cycle please let me know. And thanks in advance for your time.

 

[system]

I can’t go over everything at the moment but .5 E3D is very likely an excessive caber dose for that amount of deca. I would start @ .25 E7D and adjust accordingly. If you are extremely sensitive to prolactin I’d say .25 E3D.

Also, personally, since you are really looking for deca to shine here, I’d go with something like 250-300 test and 5-600 deca instead of having higher test. Typically higher test also brings more estrogen and prolactin sides while on deca, so this should help minimize those issues while giving you more benefits from the higher dose of deca.

Further, 12 weeks is simply too short for a deca run unless you’re starting off with NPP (IMO). You would benefit more from running it for 16-18 weeks. If you wanted to you could drop your test dose down to 100-150 on week 12, but I think running the entire thing for 16-18 weeks would be a good idea.

Finally, you could consider starting hCG on week 4-6 instead of waiting until 8. A small change, but you’ll be shut down within a month so you’d benefit from starting it earlier.

Hope this helps and if you have any specific questions by all means shoot!

 

[Majorgains123]

I was planning this same thing for my next cycle but adding 30mg dbol also. (Dbol 4 weeks on 4 weeks off repeat throughout entire cycle) So my question is run test @like 300mg per week and Deca @ 600mg per week? Just started my cruise of 150mg Test C per week (gunna be around 16 weeks). Going to run this next cycle 18-20 weeks. Thoughts and suggestions are always appreciated! Thanks

 

[ChemLyft]

Im actually trying this out as well this cycle I just ordered. A 250mg test 500mg deca about 16 weeks stopping the deca 2 weeks before. I have a TProp/SuperDrol kickstart. Will be the lowest amount of test I’ve ran in a cycle. Im look forward to seeing how it goes. Plus with such a long cycle you can always throw in a mini cut for 2-3 weeks if you are gaining too much bodyfat or looking to get beach ready or injuries/life happens. HCG will definitely be a must on such a long cycle although I only run the hcg at the last 4-6 weeks before PCT max 1000iu per week but we all got our ideas. Also as far as caber never had to use it. But definitely good to have on hand as well as your AI.

 

[Sparker]

kingofcarbz" pid='5190' dateline='1522525092:

I can’t go over everything at the moment but .5 E3D is very likely an excessive caber dose for that amount of deca. I would start @ .25 E7D and adjust accordingly. If you are extremely sensitive to prolactin I’d say .25 E3D.

Also, personally, since you are really looking for deca to shine here, I’d go with something like 250-300 test and 5-600 deca instead of having higher test. Typically higher test also brings more estrogen and prolactin sides while on deca, so this should help minimize those issues while giving you more benefits from the higher dose of deca.

Further, 12 weeks is simply too short for a deca run unless you’re starting off with NPP (IMO). You would benefit more from running it for 16-18 weeks. If you wanted to you could drop your test dose down to 100-150 on week 12, but I think running the entire thing for 16-18 weeks would be a good idea.

Finally, you could consider starting hCG on week 4-6 instead of waiting until 8. A small change, but you’ll be shut down within a month so you’d benefit from starting it earlier.

Hope this helps and if you have any specific questions by all means shoot!

Caber is to be used only if showing sides, correct? Should it be used preemptively?

 

[system]

Majorgains123" pid='5199' dateline='1522532872:

I was planning this same thing for my next cycle but adding 30mg dbol also. (Dbol 4 weeks on 4 weeks off repeat throughout entire cycle) So my question is run test @like 300mg per week and Deca @ 600mg per week? Just started my cruise of 150mg Test C per week (gunna be around 16 weeks). Going to run this next cycle 18-20 weeks. Thoughts and suggestions are always appreciated! Thanks

That’s what I think would be a better option for OP who is looking specifically for the deca related benefits. To me it only makes sense that if he’s set on using deca his first time for the aforementioned reasons, he makes it his primary drug compared to how it’s currently set up with test higher than deca.
Sparker" pid='5202' dateline='1522533542:

Caber is to be used only if showing sides, correct? Should it be used preemptively?

I think that’s the general consensus, but if you’re going with something like 500+ I would say it’s very likely you’ll need at least something at some point. It’s typically why one would start at a lower dose (300 or so) to see if sides arise instead of jumping into something like what I suggested for OP, but with those doses .25 E7D is a pretty safe bet to not be too much for most of the population. With this said, bloodwork is always the best option to determine what you need as an individual. What I tell you could be the complete opposite of what you end up needing (maybe none at all).

 

[Rip_Peck]

I read that it can be used “as needed” and/or as a preventative measure for deca dick, puffy/leaky nipples and keeping prolactin down to reduce Test suppresion in the pituitary. So I figured why not just take it throughout the cycle.

---

I also agree with kingofcarbz and after doing a few more hours of research based on his reply. So I will adjust the cycle to:

Week 1-16 250mg Test E
Week 1-14 500mg Deca
Week 1-18 Armidex .5mg E3D + (Cabergoline .25mg E7D adjust accordingly)
Week 4-18 HCG 250 IU E3D
–Week 19-22 PCT-- Clomid/Nolva/Aromasin
Week 19 100/20/6.25 ED
Week 20 100/20/6.25 ED
Week 21 50/10/6.25 ED
Week 22 50/10 ED/6.25 EOD

Is that a proper time to start PCT or should I start it 10 days to 2 weeks after last pin? Also, when you said 16-18 weeks, did you mean run deca to 16-18 weeks? Or did you mean a 16-18 week cycle where deca would end 2 weeks before Test ie: week 1-18 Test E, week 1-16 Deca?

 

[Majorgains123]

@“kingofcarbz” @“Rip_Peck” so how does this sound… 300mg Test C and 500mg Deca per week? Also gunna run HCG 500iu per week and gunna do caber as stated by @“kingofcarbz” E7D (adjust as needed)

 

[Bearslovecheese]

Just want to point out Deca is being used as the hormone but you are taking Nandrolone Decanoate to get the effect. Since you’re cycling and doing a 16week cycle it will take you a significant chunk of the start to get the Nandrolone levels up and benefit, and then because of ester length difference you need to cut the Decanoate ester well before the Testosterone in order to avoid the “Deca Kiss of Death” IE starting PCT while you are still clearing the hormone and experiencing a much more harsh experience returning to natural production.

This is all to say that you have two different options for Nandrolone that are very viable. Nandrolone Phenylpropionate (NPP) has a shorter half life (but not super short) of 4.5 days and Nandrolone Cypionate (approx 10 days) which has a half life very similar to your Testosterone Enanthate. Nand Cyp has the added bonus of also having a higher mg hormone per unit of volume then both Deca and NPP.

You could use NPP and inject it 3 times a week (and break down your Test injections to go 3x a week as well to match schedule) or NandC would be twice weekly just like your test, Deca I would still do twice weekly despite the longer ester.

I’m right there with you. Looking forward to knocking out pre cycle bloods in 2 weeks (soonest they could get me in) and doing a very similar 250/600 Test/NandCyp blast for summer.

 

[Sparker]

kingofcarbz" pid='5204' dateline='1522534392:

Majorgains123" pid='5199' dateline='1522532872:

I was planning this same thing for my next cycle but adding 30mg dbol also. (Dbol 4 weeks on 4 weeks off repeat throughout entire cycle) So my question is run test @like 300mg per week and Deca @ 600mg per week? Just started my cruise of 150mg Test C per week (gunna be around 16 weeks). Going to run this next cycle 18-20 weeks. Thoughts and suggestions are always appreciated! Thanks

That’s what I think would be a better option for OP who is looking specifically for the deca related benefits. To me it only makes sense that if he’s set on using deca his first time for the aforementioned reasons, he makes it his primary drug compared to how it’s currently set up with test higher than deca.
Sparker" pid='5202' dateline='1522533542:

Caber is to be used only if showing sides, correct? Should it be used preemptively?

I think that’s the general consensus, but if you’re going with something like 500+ I would say it’s very likely you’ll need at least something at some point. It’s typically why one would start at a lower dose (300 or so) to see if sides arise instead of jumping into something like what I suggested for OP, but with those doses .25 E7D is a pretty safe bet to not be too much for most of the population. With this said, bloodwork is always the best option to determine what you need as an individual. What I tell you could be the complete opposite of what you end up needing (maybe none at all).

Excuse my ignorance, I’ve actually only used test and orals throughout the years since I was still getting excellent results. Now that I’m BnC, I’ll be adding some extra compounds starting with deca. So if you keep estrogen in check, will that also keep prolactin in check? Do they have the ability to elevate independent of each other? Also, where do you get your caber?

 

[Bearslovecheese]

Anecdotally speaking: Prolactin-related issues typically arise when E2 gets out of control. Prolactin can be running high and you will not have any issues as long as your E2 is dialed. Now at a certain point your prolactin can get high enough that it will cause issues regardless.

To give examples:

TRT Test + 700 Tren would almost certainly yield highly elevated prolactin as the blast continues week after week. Having only TRT level of test would yield stable E2 throughout meaning you’re gtg until you literally can’t bust a nut during sex.

500 Test + 750 Deca would again yield highly elevated prolactin as well as also having TWO compounds that aromatize making E2 balance a high priority. If E2 gets out of control with elevated prolactin then you may certainly expect prolactin-based gyno (puffy flared nips, lactation) vs estro gyno.

I hope that illustrated the point enough to get the point across. And yes, E2 and Prolactin can rise/lower independent of each other. Aromasin/Letrozole/Arimidex would lower/manage E2 while Prami/Caber/Bromo would lower/manage prolactin. One thing to point in regards to Caber is ( https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23686524 ) DAWS - Dopamine Agonist Withdrawal Syndrome. Not necessarily “likely” considering how many people take Caber recreationally for refractory period or its feel good properties but it’s worth being aware of.

 

[ChemLyft]

As far as sources for cheap caber I’m all ears cause my source was insanely high. Unless I missed someone on here that carries it

 

[ryan]

ChemLyft" pid='5236' dateline='1522556553:

As far as sources for cheap caber I’m all ears cause my source was insanely high. Unless I missed someone on here that carries it

AIPCT is my go to for Caber. Takes ~2 weeks to get to the west coast where I am.

 

[Bernie]

Rip_Peck" pid='5182' dateline='1522521155:

I am in my late 30’s and I have been lifting since I was 17 with a few breaks here and there. I am 5’11", ~12-15% BF, and my weight fluctuates around ~210 - 225. I have hit plateaus several times and this is usually due to joint and tendon pain. Between lifting and my physically demanding job my joints and connective tissue have taken a beating. I have been interested in doing a cycle for several years (which includes Deca - no if ands or buts).

I am asking you experienced folks to steer me in the right direction in adjusting my cycle. And by all means I am not trying to be rude, but I ask that you please refrain from posting other cycles that don’t include Deca, or telling me that I should do a Test E only cycle first. My decision is set in stone. I am looking for pointers on a Test E + Deca cycle only.

After scouring the web for common Test E + Deca cycles and filtering through page after page of “Don’t do test + deca, just do test” posts, I ran into this cycle:

Week 1-14 500mg Test E
Week 1-12 400mg Deca
Week 1-16 Armidex .5mg E3D + Cabergoline .5mg E3D
Week 8-16 HCG 250 IU E3D
–Week 17-20 PCT-- Clomid/Nolva/Aromasin
Week 17 100/20/6.25 ED
Week 18 100/20/6.25 ED
Week 19 50/10/6.25 ED
Week 20 50/10 ED/6.25 EOD

The main areas that I am asking for help in adjusting are the AI and PCT. Or anything I should include or exclude. I am willing to replace Armidex with Aromasin, as long as you recommend a dosage that fits into the cycle.

If you have a link or recommendation for a better Test E + Deca cycle please let me know. And thanks in advance for your time.

Just for the record, many people say that “Deca is good for your joints” is just BroScience, there’s nothing to back it up.

I love deca though, I just wouldn’t expect it to work magic on your joints. I ran 500/500 Test/Deca for 20 weeks. I ran NPP the first few weeks, and bridged it into Deca to get the effects faster, didn’t need Caber personally.

 

[Sparker]

Bearslovecheese" pid='5234' dateline='1522554258:

Anecdotally speaking: Prolactin-related issues typically arise when E2 gets out of control. Prolactin can be running high and you will not have any issues as long as your E2 is dialed. Now at a certain point your prolactin can get high enough that it will cause issues regardless.

To give examples:

TRT Test + 700 Tren would almost certainly yield highly elevated prolactin as the blast continues week after week. Having only TRT level of test would yield stable E2 throughout meaning you’re gtg until you literally can’t bust a nut during sex.

500 Test + 750 Deca would again yield highly elevated prolactin as well as also having TWO compounds that aromatize making E2 balance a high priority. If E2 gets out of control with elevated prolactin then you may certainly expect prolactin-based gyno (puffy flared nips, lactation) vs estro gyno.

I hope that illustrated the point enough to get the point across. And yes, E2 and Prolactin can rise/lower independent of each other. Aromasin/Letrozole/Arimidex would lower/manage E2 while Prami/Caber/Bromo would lower/manage prolactin. One thing to point in regards to Caber is ( https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23686524 ) DAWS - Dopamine Agonist Withdrawal Syndrome. Not necessarily “likely” considering how many people take Caber recreationally for refractory period or its feel good properties but it’s worth being aware of.

Thanks for the info bro, I appreciate it.

 

[system]

Majorgains123" pid='5208' dateline='1522535611:

@“kingofcarbz” @“Rip_Peck” so how does this sound… 300mg Test C and 500mg Deca per week? Also gunna run HCG 500iu per week and gunna do caber as stated by @“kingofcarbz” E7D (adjust as needed)

That sounds fine to me man. You’ll likely need an AI as well of course.
Sparker" pid='5218' dateline='1522537702:

Excuse my ignorance, I’ve actually only used test and orals throughout the years since I was still getting excellent results. Now that I’m BnC, I’ll be adding some extra compounds starting with deca. So if you keep estrogen in check, will that also keep prolactin in check? Do they have the ability to elevate independent of each other? Also, where do you get your caber?

Keeping estro in line definitely helps to minimize any prolactin related sides. You may still end up needing caber, but far less than if you had elevated estrogen. I am unsure if they have the ability to elevate independently…I would believe so though, at least, estro can. I got my Caber from Tiromel.net, but that was at least 5 or 6 months ago. Took 2-3 weeks to get to me IIRC.

 

[Sparker]

kingofcarbz" pid='5366' dateline='1522684699:

Majorgains123" pid='5208' dateline='1522535611:

@“kingofcarbz” @“Rip_Peck” so how does this sound… 300mg Test C and 500mg Deca per week? Also gunna run HCG 500iu per week and gunna do caber as stated by @“kingofcarbz” E7D (adjust as needed)

That sounds fine to me man. You’ll likely need an AI as well of course.
Sparker" pid='5218' dateline='1522537702:

Excuse my ignorance, I’ve actually only used test and orals throughout the years since I was still getting excellent results. Now that I’m BnC, I’ll be adding some extra compounds starting with deca. So if you keep estrogen in check, will that also keep prolactin in check? Do they have the ability to elevate independent of each other? Also, where do you get your caber?

Keeping estro in line definitely helps to minimize any prolactin related sides. You may still end up needing caber, but far less than if you had elevated estrogen. I am unsure if they have the ability to elevate independently…I would believe so though, at least, estro can. I got my Caber from Tiromel.net, but that was at least 5 or 6 months ago. Took 2-3 weeks to get to me IIRC.

Thanks for getting back with me. I’ll be cruising for a few more weeks but when I start the blast I’ll probably be hitting you up for more advice here and there. Definitely interested to see what kind of results I get with a stack but I want to do it right.

 

[pelicanman]

Sparker" pid='5202' dateline='1522533542:

kingofcarbz" pid='5190' dateline='1522525092:

I can’t go over everything at the moment but .5 E3D is very likely an excessive caber dose for that amount of deca. I would start @ .25 E7D and adjust accordingly. If you are extremely sensitive to prolactin I’d say .25 E3D.

Also, personally, since you are really looking for deca to shine here, I’d go with something like 250-300 test and 5-600 deca instead of having higher test. Typically higher test also brings more estrogen and prolactin sides while on deca, so this should help minimize those issues while giving you more benefits from the higher dose of deca.

Further, 12 weeks is simply too short for a deca run unless you’re starting off with NPP (IMO). You would benefit more from running it for 16-18 weeks. If you wanted to you could drop your test dose down to 100-150 on week 12, but I think running the entire thing for 16-18 weeks would be a good idea.

Finally, you could consider starting hCG on week 4-6 instead of waiting until 8. A small change, but you’ll be shut down within a month so you’d benefit from starting it earlier.

Hope this helps and if you have any specific questions by all means shoot!

Caber is to be used only if showing sides, correct? Should it be used preemptively?

I went up to 600mg deca for 16 weeks (then my appendix decided to die) and never needed caber.

I wouldn’t take it preemptively. Caber acts pretty fast.

 

[system]

pelicanman" pid='5547' dateline='1522773802:

I went up to 600mg deca for 16 weeks (then my appendix decided to die) and never needed caber.

I wouldn’t take it preemptively. Caber acts pretty fast.

Did you get blood work done while mid-blast to determine your prolactin isn’t elevated though?

Not at all saying it isn’t possible to avoid using any sort of prolactin control, it absolutely is for some, but just checking if you have the labs to support your personal experience. If so, I’m damn jealous and you should feel very fortunate!

 

[daddyswole]

Do not run Deca if you PCT. It stays in your system way to long. Deca should be left for those that blast and cruise. If you want to run a nandrolone, use NPP.