Naringin for controlling hematocrit

[mdwilson2011]

@“SouthernCompounding” @“Dexter”

Soco, I remember you saying a while back that you were taking naringin to reduce crit. Have you found that it is effective or nah?

Dex, I know you have a bit more experience with this stuff than an average person. What’s your take on naringin’s efficacy?

I’m interested in this because my blood pressure has always been a fickle pickle. I was diagnosed with mild to moderate asthma as a child, and it’s bad enough that I never “grew” out of it. Even as a very active and underweight kid with literally less than 8% body fat, my blood pressure would often be 130/90 at the doctor.

My crit and hemoglobin, even off cycle, will typically sit at greater than 50% and greater than 17g/dl respectively. On cycle, I’ve had crit be 56% and hemoglobin at 19.5g/dl with water intake of 1 gallon per day.

My intuitive goal with reducing hematocrit is to reduce blood volume, and hopefully reduce blood pressure. Is this the correct way to approach, or am I dumb and this should be posted under “dumb questions?” Everyone feel free to share your experience.

 

[HeathGT]

I too have struggled with high HCT in the past and after trying naringin/grapefruit juice etc to help lower it, I never found those things to help much. It just seems to be random. Let me give you an example of how mine has been… Natty HCT was at 47.5%. Did my first test blast, donated midway, HCT was at 48 or 49 afterwards. Cruised for 4 months, got bloods, HCT was at 52%. Took naringin/grapefruit daily for month and a half, went to donate blood, HCT still 52%. Said screw it, started next blast of Test and EQ of all things. After 8 weeks got bloods, HCT is 45%. Now tell me how does any of that make sense? HCT was high on cruise, while taking naringin/grapefruit. But drops dramatically after blast of EQ with no supps? lol

 

[appropionate]

if you search grapefruit or naringin you’ll find past discussions - usually bumps hct down ~2 points in my experience/bloodwork, worth it alongside blood letting/donating to control hct

 

[beefnewton]

Never did shit for me… grapefruit or naringin. Only thing that works is draining out.

 

[Dexter]

High blood pressure is often genetic. I’ve seen this happen over and over. I have a good friend, she’s very slim, in good shape, if she doesn’t take her blood pressure medications her pressure will be 220/120. Her father has the same problem.

My father has been on bp meds since he was 25. I have never taken bp meds except just to experiment with them and see if they work, I keep a stash on hand in case I have a physical I have to pass.

That said I never really liked taking bp medications, I found all the ones I’ve used to have side effects and honestly some of them make me fill like crap.

Yes theraputic phlebotomy or donating blood helps. However it only lasts for a few weeks. I have naturally high hbg of 17, I also have life long asthma(not just exercise induced, but the allergic kind that can kill you if you get around the wrong stuff), I have very mild sleep apnea and use a CPAP without a prescription. I watch my sodium as much as possible, the goal is to get no more then 500mg a day, not very easy these days.

Here’s what I’ve noticed. My bp if i don’t phlebotomize will hit about 150/110, I’ll get pounding headaches, especially when I’m trying to sleep.

Hct has been as high as 65% in the past. My head felt like it was gonna explode. At that time I drew off 800mls of blood, however this is dangerous as you’ll experience tachycardia from the reduced volume(your heart will have to speed up to compensate), but I’ll tell you I felt better almost instantly when I was done, it was calming and peaceful. My bp went from 155 down to 115 the next day, however within three weeks it went back up to 130/85.

Doing lots of high intensity cardio tends to relax the heart so you can drop the diastolic or bottom number, but it doesn’t seem to help the systolic as much.

AI use can drop the blood pressure, but if you’re not showing signs of high E2, swollen ankles or puffiness, this might not help. However I have noticed that taking an AI will drop the bp within three days, but the problem is it’s not sustainable.

I keep a stash of hctz tablets, but those cause me stomach upset and I just feel off while on them, so I don’t use them. They will drop your pressure slightly, not worth the trouble personally.

So ultimately I phlebotomize myself of 250mls of blood every four weeks. This is about 5% of the blood volume of a normal non-obese person. Obviously those of us on AAS have higher hct and we could drain more, but tachycardia will get you if you draw off more then 500mls. It’s a balancing act, no one wants high blood pressure, but you also don’t want your heart beating fast all the time from reduced fluid volume.

There is some evidence that microdosing with frequent injections will prevent some of these side effects. I can tell you that I’ve used higher doses of AAS at about 300mg/week with once a week injections and my hct shot up fast. I notice now that I inject every other day or every third day, it does take longer for my hct to elevate. What you’re doing basically is allowing your body to achieve a stead state, the body might not be so reactive if the hormones aren’t showing so many fluctuations. Think of it as your normal cycle, every night you produce test when you sleep, so maybe if you injected with less, but injected every other day with shorter esters this could mimic your natural production, but just increased for performance enhancement. I’d love to see a study on this.

 

[mdwilson2011]

Thanks for the replies and insight. I’m going to look into self phleb of 250ml blood every 4 week and see how bp and crit reacts,while also keeping sodium at 2000mg or lower. Idk how you manage to only eat 500mg a day lol

 

[Dexter]

mdwilson2011" pid='66589' dateline='1566932774:

Thanks for the replies and insight. I’m going to look into self phleb of 250ml blood every 4 week and see how bp and crit reacts,while also keeping sodium at 2000mg or lower. Idk how you manage to only eat 500mg a day lol

I don’t eat any processed foods, no condiments. I use the blender a lot for getting all my greens. Canned goods are always no salt added.

Meat is kind of tricky. That’s where my sodium comes from. I eat about a 1-1.5 pounds of boiled chicken breasts with sweet potatoes.
I stay away from beef for the most part, I love the taste of a nice steak, but it’s too heavy, I feel it’s too hard to digest. I tend to stick with chicken, turkey, and fish like salmon. Use a Ms Dash seasoning.

So it’s possible, but it requires a very strict diet and some people need more salt, they get weak if they sweat a lot so in that case salt to your needs.

 

[HeathGT]

Dexter" pid='66592' dateline='1566933755:

mdwilson2011" pid='66589' dateline='1566932774:

Thanks for the replies and insight. I’m going to look into self phleb of 250ml blood every 4 week and see how bp and crit reacts,while also keeping sodium at 2000mg or lower. Idk how you manage to only eat 500mg a day lol

I don’t eat any processed foods, no condiments. I use the blender a lot for getting all my greens. Canned goods are always no salt added.

Meat is kind of tricky. That’s where my sodium comes from. I eat about a 1-1.5 pounds of boiled chicken breasts with sweet potatoes.
I stay away from beef for the most part, I love the taste of a nice steak, but it’s too heavy, I feel it’s too hard to digest. I tend to stick with chicken, turkey, and fish like salmon. Use a Ms Dash seasoning.

So it’s possible, but it requires a very strict diet and some people need more salt, they get weak if they sweat a lot so in that case salt to your needs.

Bro, you literally just throw chicken breasts in a pot of water and boil them? Sounds like it would be hard to eat. I envy you though I wish I could eat like this everyday…

 

[bubba_bob]

I run better with high BP. If my BP gets to 120/80 I just want to pass out and sleep. That being said I’m on an ARB, a CCB, and a diuretic and my BP might be close to normal when I am in a good mood.

I eat a clean non-processed diet, fast intermittently, do cardio and by all means (other than the added hormones) should have normal BP.

Add in any stress and my BP goes up. Lab coat = BP up. Bitchy wife = BP up. Doctor, nurse, etc giving me a condescending lecture about my high BP then forget about it - just knock me out then watch it plummet.

Even when my BP is super high I rarely notice any issues - I usually feel good.

Still need to figure out how to phlebotomize myself - the last time was kind of a mess.

 

[Dexter]

bubba_bob" pid='77690' dateline='1577471584:

Still need to figure out how to phlebotomize myself - the last time was kind of a mess.

If self phlebotomy is a problem I’d recommend a double red donation to get rid of blood fast.

The problem is the Red Cross only allows a double red donation every 16 weeks compared to a 500cc whole blood donation that can be given every 8 weeks.

I recently switched to using 19g butterfly (https://www.ebay.com/itm/New-KDL-Pa...hash=item2390d29aee:m:mC66JCbOAEJx17miGDQOdLA ) needles that I got dirt cheap and I’m now able to draw off a 1000cc in less than 15 minutes using a 60cc syringe over filling it by 10cc and drawing and emptying it 14 times. These butterfly needles are vastly better than the BD 21g I was using and I went ahead and ordered 250 of them because they’re only $8.50 for 50qty, which is insanely cheap.

The problem is my hct goes up as high as 70% within a month. It’s not good to have that, so I self phlebotomize and will be stuck doing that until I can figure out a way to limit the effects of Test and DHT.
It’s a combination of high trough levels of AAS, using multivitamins with iron to keep my ferritin levels normal because I remove blood every month. It’s a viscous cycle that will never end until the day I completely stop all AAS which will happen when I’m dead.

 

[WinterPharm]

Boiled chicken breasts and self phlebotomy. Dexter’s hardcore.