My sleep is totally fucked

[don_c]

Haven’t really slept in the past week. Restless all night. Will fall asleep for 20 minutes then wake up and be wide awake. Just repeat that cycle the entire night.

4 weeks into a blast. Getting blood work done so I may be able to pinpoint WTF is going on but hoping for some ideas in the meantime.

Current compounds are 500 test, 600 eq, 600 deca, 50mg d bol, 40mg mk-677. Adex and caber as needed.

Only noticeable sides (other than not sleeping) are elevated systolic, minor water retention, and a couple headaches. Decided to cut out the d bol to help with blood pressure and see if it alleviates my sleeping issue.

So far have tried cutting out all caffeine in the PM, moderate dose cbd, and melatonin. Hasn’t worked… just crash for a short time and then am wide awake again.

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

 

[Beetlejuice]

My guess would be high estrogen. With what you’re running you should have it dialed in not taking it ( as needed). Could maybe be high blood pressure/rbc too

 

[don_c]

Beetlejuice" pid='59405' dateline='1562018178:

My guess would be high estrogen. With what you’re running you should have it dialed in not taking it ( as needed). Could maybe be high blood pressure/rbc too

To clarify “as needed” I’m taking .5mg adex either eod or e3d and the caber .5mg twice a week. I am gyno sensitive to d bol but haven’t had any issues this cycle so I felt like my ai dosing was right.

Currently trying to get blood pressure down to see if that helps.

D bol always fucks my life up. I don’t know why I keep taking it lol.

 

[mdwilson2011]

Unpopular opinion alert

That’s a serious metric fuck ton of gear. It might be worth asking yourself if you really need that much gear if you’re not an ifbb pro

 

[DNPstoney]

mdwilson2011" pid='59413' dateline='1562021151:

Unpopular opinion alert

That’s a serious metric fuck ton of gear. It might be worth asking yourself if you really need that much gear if you’re not an ifbb pro

That isn’t a metric fuck ton of gear. That is ~5-6ml/week of gear depending on dosage. MK-677 isn’t gear (it isn’t even a SARM really, though it is lumped in there a lot). Dbol is the only thing that is a bit much. If you think IFBB pros are only running 1.7g/gear a week, you are confused. 1.7g/gear a day is a metric fuck ton of gear.

 

[don_c]

mdwilson2011" pid='59413' dateline='1562021151:

Unpopular opinion alert

That’s a serious metric fuck ton of gear. It might be worth asking yourself if you really need that much gear if you’re not an ifbb pro

Yeah man I’m gonna have to disagree with you lol… I wouldn’t consider this a “metric fuck ton” of gear. This is where I’m starting my blast and it’s gonna increase/swap compounds over the duration of the cycle.

And idk why you’re on gear but I just wanna be freaky. No trophy necessary.

 

[mdwilson2011]

@“don_c” so let me get this straight. You’re having problems sleeping and you’re on 2g of gear a week. And now you’re saying you’re going to increase and swap compounds?

Look I get it. We all like using gear around here. But it should enhance our lives and our training, not destroy our sleep and well being in the process. Just something to think about bro.

 

[don_c]

mdwilson2011" pid='59421' dateline='1562023570:

@“don_c” so let me get this straight. You’re having problems sleeping and you’re on 2g of gear a week. And now you’re saying you’re going to increase and swap compounds?

Look I get it. We all like using gear around here. But it should enhance our lives and our training, not destroy our sleep and well being in the process. Just something to think about bro.

Figure out issue… Correct issue… Keep moving forward…

 

[DNPstoney]

don_c" pid='59401' dateline='1562017161:

Haven’t really slept in the past week. Restless all night. Will fall asleep for 20 minutes then wake up and be wide awake. Just repeat that cycle the entire night.

4 weeks into a blast. Getting blood work done so I may be able to pinpoint WTF is going on but hoping for some ideas in the meantime.

Current compounds are 500 test, 600 eq, 600 deca, 50mg d bol, 40mg mk-677. Adex and caber as needed.

Only noticeable sides (other than not sleeping) are elevated systolic, minor water retention, and a couple headaches. Decided to cut out the d bol to help with blood pressure and see if it alleviates my sleeping issue.

So far have tried cutting out all caffeine in the PM, moderate dose cbd, and melatonin. Hasn’t worked… just crash for a short time and then am wide awake again.

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Honestly man… your sides are all over the place. On the one hand, it sounds like high E2. On the other hand, it seems like your EQ might be causing your BP and HCT to be elevated and causes those sides.

I would not cut out Dbol until after your blood test. If you cut it out, you will never know for sure what is causing these sides.

Or, I would cut the Dbol out and then wait ~2 weeks before getting a blood test so your hormones can stabilize.

This is the main reason I am not a fan of Dbol; sides are hard to control and exacerbate other compounds (or so it seems). I like to keep some on hand in case I crash my estro, but not a big fan of it for blasting. I know it is a bit of an odd opinion, since Dbol is such a staple.

---

mdwilson2011" pid='59421' dateline='1562023570:

@“don_c” so let me get this straight. You’re having problems sleeping and you’re on 2g of gear a week. And now you’re saying you’re going to increase and swap compounds?

Look I get it. We all like using gear around here. But it should enhance our lives and our training, not destroy our sleep and well being in the process. Just something to think about bro.

Look, I get what you are saying, but you are coming off preachy, similar to a “holier-than-thou” kind of persona.

Point to the gear and tell me what is excessive. Because nothing stands out; he isn’t running two 19-nors, EQ normally needs to be run high to see anything out of it (and 600mg isn’t much tbh), 500mg/week of Test and 50mg/week of Dbol is standard dosages. It isn’t like he is running a gram of Tren a week or anything excessive like that.

A better way to phrase it is: “You should start cutting out gear if you are having such bad side effects. Find out what the cause is, then adjust.” Saying “That’s too much gear; you don’t need that much gear” isn’t very good advice. Preaching abstinence instead of harm reduction is the opposite of what our goals are in most online AAS communities.

 

[Masterofron]

So far, I’ve learned from this thread that 1.5gms plus an oral per week is a metric fuck ton of gear. I need to re-evaluate my cycle of 2gms per week plus an oral, because I must be running an astronomical amount.

---

@“DNPstoney” you have some serious patience with moronic responses from people. I admire this level of patience.

 

[don_c]

@“DNPstoney” I only had a week left on the d bol so I think it’s best to just cut it out… from past experience I know it’s probably the cause of my elevated bp and water retention. I planned on waiting until week 6 to draw bloods anyways so this is good timing! Tbh I’ve been off it 2 days now and feel a lot better overall. We will see if my sleep is any better tonight!

Thanks for the feedback.

 

[Booger]

Breathe Right strips clear.

 

[scrapiron]

don_c" pid='59401' dateline='1562017161:

Haven’t really slept in the past week. Restless all night. Will fall asleep for 20 minutes then wake up and be wide awake. Just repeat that cycle the entire night.

4 weeks into a blast. Getting blood work done so I may be able to pinpoint WTF is going on but hoping for some ideas in the meantime.

Current compounds are 500 test, 600 eq, 600 deca, 50mg d bol, 40mg mk-677. Adex and caber as needed.

Only noticeable sides (other than not sleeping) are elevated systolic, minor water retention, and a couple headaches. Decided to cut out the d bol to help with blood pressure and see if it alleviates my sleeping issue.

So far have tried cutting out all caffeine in the PM, moderate dose cbd, and melatonin. Hasn’t worked… just crash for a short time and then am wide awake again.

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Why has no one suggested EQ as the culprit? Even mild anxiety from it will wreck your sleep. I can’t even use 200mg EQ without it destroying my sleep. Tren doesn’t hold a candle to it as far as sleep disturbance goes (for me).

 

[don_c]

Booger" pid='59447' dateline='1562035049:

Breathe Right strips clear.

Thanks… Just ordered some…

---

scrapiron__" pid='59450' dateline='1562036934:

don_c" pid='59401' dateline='1562017161:

Haven’t really slept in the past week. Restless all night. Will fall asleep for 20 minutes then wake up and be wide awake. Just repeat that cycle the entire night.

4 weeks into a blast. Getting blood work done so I may be able to pinpoint WTF is going on but hoping for some ideas in the meantime.

Current compounds are 500 test, 600 eq, 600 deca, 50mg d bol, 40mg mk-677. Adex and caber as needed.

Only noticeable sides (other than not sleeping) are elevated systolic, minor water retention, and a couple headaches. Decided to cut out the d bol to help with blood pressure and see if it alleviates my sleeping issue.

So far have tried cutting out all caffeine in the PM, moderate dose cbd, and melatonin. Hasn’t worked… just crash for a short time and then am wide awake again.

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Why has no one suggested EQ as the culprit? Even mild anxiety from it will wreck your sleep. I can’t even use 200mg EQ without it destroying my sleep. Tren doesn’t hold a candle to it as far as sleep disturbance goes (for me).

Interesting… Have u found anything that helps it?

I actually remember my sleep was fucked up like two years ago when I was running EQ… At the time I attributed it to my caffeine consumption because I was drinking coffee all day long!

 

[appropionate]

I’m usually confident at finding the culprit for bad sleep quality/quantity but on that combo of gear I’d want you to get extensive bloodwork, might be quicker than playing the guessing game.

how about stress/cortisol btw, perhaps lifestyle or systemic stress via hormetic processes from introducing all that gear could’ve let to high cortisol even after sunset / low serotonin = no sleep for you.

wouldn’t approach this via sleep supps like zma, melatonin etc for now

 

[DNPstoney]

scrapiron__" pid='59450' dateline='1562036934:

don_c" pid='59401' dateline='1562017161:

Haven’t really slept in the past week. Restless all night. Will fall asleep for 20 minutes then wake up and be wide awake. Just repeat that cycle the entire night.

4 weeks into a blast. Getting blood work done so I may be able to pinpoint WTF is going on but hoping for some ideas in the meantime.

Current compounds are 500 test, 600 eq, 600 deca, 50mg d bol, 40mg mk-677. Adex and caber as needed.

Only noticeable sides (other than not sleeping) are elevated systolic, minor water retention, and a couple headaches. Decided to cut out the d bol to help with blood pressure and see if it alleviates my sleeping issue.

So far have tried cutting out all caffeine in the PM, moderate dose cbd, and melatonin. Hasn’t worked… just crash for a short time and then am wide awake again.

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Why has no one suggested EQ as the culprit? Even mild anxiety from it will wreck your sleep. I can’t even use 200mg EQ without it destroying my sleep. Tren doesn’t hold a candle to it as far as sleep disturbance goes (for me).

I do agree with this. Lots of sides you are describing are similar to sides I have had on EQ specifically at that dose. I can run Tren at 1g+/week with no anxiety or sleeping issues, then run 600mg of EQ and my sleep drops to ~4 hours a night and I start worrying about things that I have already written off or accepted. I am undecided whether it is worth it for me; I will let you know in a few months.

The main thing that threw me off was the minor water retention side. That is normally not a side ever associated with EQ (the opposite really), so that made me believe it might have been a few things compounding to make the sides bad.

I think the first step (as don_c has already said/done) is making sure your E2 is under control. If you drop Dbol, get bloods, your E2 is fine, and you still have these sides, then the next step is to look at additional compounds. Next would be dropping EQ IMO and then Deca so you are just running Test/MK-677 and AI as needed. If you are still getting sides, it is time to start seriously considering cruising or finding out if the MK-677 and Test are legit and not contaminated with some substance that has these sides.

Thing that suck about it though is that EQ (and Deca lol) is a long ester. IIRC, it will take 3-5 weeks before the effects start going away, so I think targeting you E2/Dbol plan is a more immediate solution.

---

Masterofron" pid='59430' dateline='1562028682:

So far, I’ve learned from this thread that 1.5gms plus an oral per week is a metric fuck ton of gear. I need to re-evaluate my cycle of 2gms per week plus an oral, because I must be running an astronomical amount.

---

@“DNPstoney” you have some serious patience with moronic responses from people. I admire this level of patience.

---

Hah, it comes and goes.

Lots of time, I try to give some benefit of the doubt and think that this person is just misinformed because of the amount of bro-science around AAS and the fact that it is taboo to talk about publicly.

Then again, sometimes I read a post and think the person is so stupid there is no chance that I can explain anything to them lol. I normally try not to engage with those posts, or just say something like “wat”.

 

[mdwilson2011]

@“DNPstoney” You’re right man, I came across like a preacher. It really wasn’t intentional, and is a limitation of not conversing face to face

@“Masterofron” If you want to run that much gear, go ahead. I couldn’t care less what happens to you long term. But it might be a good idea to lower that tren dose considering how often you insult people on this forum

 

[don_c]

appropionate" pid='59456' dateline='1562043812:

I’m usually confident at finding the culprit for bad sleep quality/quantity but on that combo of gear I’d want you to get extensive bloodwork, might be quicker than playing the guessing game.

how about stress/cortisol btw, perhaps lifestyle or systemic stress via hormetic processes from introducing all that gear could’ve let to high cortisol even after sunset / low serotonin = no sleep for you.

wouldn’t approach this via sleep supps like zma, melatonin etc for now

Agreed. I’m a business owner that often works late into the night on the computer and I’m always thinking about client accounts and what needs to be done. I should probably try to end my work day earlier so my mind has time to decompress before going to bed. I am also looking into blue light glasses as I’ve heard looking at the computer late can affect your sleep.

Thanks for he feedback buddy.

 

[thallandchill]

don_c" pid='59485' dateline='1562086097:

appropionate" pid='59456' dateline='1562043812:

I’m usually confident at finding the culprit for bad sleep quality/quantity but on that combo of gear I’d want you to get extensive bloodwork, might be quicker than playing the guessing game.

how about stress/cortisol btw, perhaps lifestyle or systemic stress via hormetic processes from introducing all that gear could’ve let to high cortisol even after sunset / low serotonin = no sleep for you.

wouldn’t approach this via sleep supps like zma, melatonin etc for now

Agreed. I’m a business owner that often works late into the night on the computer and I’m always thinking about client accounts and what needs to be done. I should probably try to end my work day earlier so my mind has time to decompress before going to bed. I am also looking into blue light glasses as I’ve heard looking at the computer late can affect your sleep.

Thanks for he feedback buddy.

Looking at the computer or your phone late can absolutely affect your sleep. I’ve made it a habit to put my phone away and to stop looking at a computer screen about an hour before bed and you would be surprised how much easier it’s made it to fall asleep and stay asleep.

 

[don_c]

@“DNPstoney” just as an update… blood pressure has lowered to 131/70. Got better sleep last night. Not great, but definitely wasn’t up as much tossing and turning. Overall feeling better since I dropped the dbol. Gonna see how the next couple of nights go then ultimately see how my bloodwork looks. I don’t want to drop the EQ because I planned to run it throughout the cycle so I’m hoping to make some improvements in the next week!

On the MK, this is the only compound I haven’t run before. I was hoping it would actually improve my sleep which is one of the reasons I started taking it. I have had some overwhelming hunger issues but I have also had the same feelings from EQ so don’t know which compound is the culprit. I don’t mind that though.