does high hemoglobin cause joint pain?

[bigsmith97]

my hemoglobin is at 18.3 & i feel like shit. also my elbows are starting to kill me out of nowhere

 

[Thrasymachus]

Joint pain isn't usually caused by elevated hemoglobin.

I'd would consider that more a problem of DHT compounds that dry out joints overtime, or suppressed E2.

Elevated hemoglobin for me first causes pounding pulses when laying down, head ache, hearing pulse in ears, shortness of breath, easily fatigued due to slow turnover of CO2/O2 exchange when rbcs pass by lungs, red ankles and ears, blurred vision due to increase ocular pressure, itching ankles after hot shower.

The fastest solution would be a double red donation and to do these more frequently or every 4 months if you do the power red donation.

Of course it's better to learn how to do your own therapeutic phlebotomy using a 18 or 19g butterfly needle, I have extensive experience drawing off my own blood and typically draw off far more than would be allowed for donation.

I compare the difference between high hgb and the point where I remove more than a liter of whole blood like releasing a high pressure valve, a state of calm comes over me as I drain it off, a few days afterward of feeling low energy due to taking more than 10% of my total blood volume, which I don't recommend for people that don't know what they're doing as it will result in a tachycardia for a few days until the plasma is replaced at 125ml/day.

Regardless you have no choice but to drain if off at this point, don't think you're gonna do something or take something to make your problem go away, the problem goes away when excess blood is out of your body.

 

[Deleted member 21405]

W

my hemoglobin is at 18.3 & i feel like shit. also my elbows are starting to kill me out of nowhere

Finger poke or labs? Can make a difference. Mine was 18.3 when donating, but labs after 15.x and my doctor said the finger poke is always over.

 

[bigsmith97]

W

Finger poke or labs? Can make a difference. Mine was 18.3 when donating, but labs after 15.x and my doctor said the finger poke is always over.

labs.

 

[Thrasymachus]

W

Finger poke or labs? Can make a difference. Mine was 18.3 when donating, but labs after 15.x and my doctor said the finger poke is always over.

Hemoglobinometer like the HemoCue are known to be usually at least 1 gram higher than venous blood tested using a hematology analyzer when testing men aas users that are at the upper limits of normal.

The problem people run into when donating is that aas users are often at the upper limits of these capillary analyzers and hemoglobinometers don't do well when ranges are at the lower range....below 12.5g/dl or higher range 20g/dl. They are for all practical purposes worthless for aas users that have higher than normal hemoglobin.

The main purpose of these hemoglobinometers was to screen out those that are anemic (below 12.5g/dl) and in the danger zone for removing more than 10% of blood volume as that would push them to tachycardia(increased heart rate) and possible iron deficiency.

AAS users with higher hemoglobins should by default always be allowed to donate no matter how high the hemoglobin. This blood will be screened for blood diseases to determine safety and it can be put back for those in trauma, GI bleeds, surgery where large blood loss often requires 10 to 20 units of blood.

The logistics of onsite testing using a hemoglobinometer should only be used as a screen for anemia, not increased red blood cells, as AAS users aren't at risk for volume loss donating 1 unit or double/power red if they have a higher hgb. Instead blood banks can use a 10ml EDTA without gel, centrifuged, collected first inline along with unit of blood and a scale in millimeters used as a backdrop to determine the plasma to packed red blood cell ratio which will give an accurate hematocrit that will typically read about 1.5% higher than a hemotology analyzer that uses venous blood.

AAS blood donation is poorly understood with lots of theories as to why we shouldn't be allowed to donate if we go over the cut off which is usually 20g/dl hgb. Some state that we have longer bleeding times, others state we are prone to greater clotting with increase fibrinogen(separated fresh frozen plasma). That we would produce a unit of blood that is too large and could possibly cause an infusion error with overload for the transfusion patient which would stress the heart and brain. And of course we use needles and anabolics are illegal so that puts us in the junkie category, but I've not seen evidence for higher than normal HIV/Hepatitis infection rates among steroid users that don't use other illegal drugs and most of the data stating otherwise was collected back in the 80's and 90's when syringe and needles were harder to come by, which can even be a problem today as needle and syringes can be hard to source locally as drug war zealots look to restrict access. The only other possible source of infection would be the finished gear itself, but I have always recommended everyone to heat their vials to 160F for 90 minute using a heating pad set on high(heating pads don't go above 176F) as this will deactivate any virus and render bacteria incapable of reproducing using the heat and time ratio.

 

[FrancoC]

Guys, don’t do your own phlebotomies. Jesus Christ lol

 

[Thrasymachus]

Guys, don’t do your own phlebotomies. Jesus Christ lol

The problem is most clinicians won't allow those of us with chronically high hgb from aas use to have repeated access to therapeutic phlebotomy without refusing to treat someone that is going against a doctors order. If you have 20+g/dl hgb over and over, very few clinicians will keep you as a patient if they know you're using AAS.

For me it's a simple matter as I worked as a medical technologist for 25 years in hospital labs and have the knowledge and experience to do this safely in the privacy of my own home.

Many AAS users would benefit from the knowledge and ability to perform their own phlebotomy, instead they go around with elevated hgb for far to long which is actually more risk to your health than a properly performed blood removal.

I could actually go into great detail how this is performed, how much whole blood weighs per/ml, techniques to avoid removing too much blood, how to avoid getting light headed towards the end of your phlebotomy or sick to your stomach.

For me blood removal is a matter of necessity and I'm glad I have the ability and supplies needed to do this myself. I have taught other guys how to do it as well in person, it's better to have someone that can advice and show all the equipment needed to do this properly.

The only thing that would improve doing self therapeutic phlebotomy would be a saline IV after blood removal to replace plasma volume as you're still suck with concentrated blood for a few days until plasma volume is replaced diluting rbcs, that's the one weakness of performing at home, but this isn't done clinically either so it's an option that doesn't really exist clinically.

 

[Deleted member 21405]

my hemoglobin is at 18.3 & i feel like shit. also my elbows are starting to kill me out of nowhere

Could also be dehydration

 

[Deleted member 21405]

Hemoglobinometer like the HemoCue are known to be usually at least 1 gram higher than venous blood tested using a hematology analyzer when testing men aas users that are at the upper limits of normal.

The problem people run into when donating is that aas users are often at the upper limits of these capillary analyzers and hemoglobinometers don't do well when ranges are at the lower range....below 12.5g/dl or higher range 20g/dl. They are for all practical purposes worthless for aas users that have higher than normal hemoglobin.

The main purpose of these hemoglobinometers was to screen out those that are anemic (below 12.5g/dl) and in the danger zone for removing more than 10% of blood volume as that would push them to tachycardia(increased heart rate) and possible iron deficiency.

AAS users with higher hemoglobins should by default always be allowed to donate no matter how high the hemoglobin. This blood will be screened for blood diseases to determine safety and it can be put back for those in trauma, GI bleeds, surgery where large blood loss often requires 10 to 20 units of blood.

The logistics of onsite testing using a hemoglobinometer should only be used as a screen for anemia, not increased red blood cells, as AAS users aren't at risk for volume loss donating 1 unit or double/power red if they have a higher hgb. Instead blood banks can use a 10ml EDTA without gel, centrifuged, collected first inline along with unit of blood and a scale in millimeters used as a backdrop to determine the plasma to packed red blood cell ratio which will give an accurate hematocrit that will typically read about 1.5% higher than a hemotology analyzer that uses venous blood.

AAS blood donation is poorly understood with lots of theories as to why we shouldn't be allowed to donate if we go over the cut off which is usually 20g/dl hgb. Some state that we have longer bleeding times, others state we are prone to greater clotting with increase fibrinogen(separated fresh frozen plasma). That we would produce a unit of blood that is too large and could possibly cause an infusion error with overload for the transfusion patient which would stress the heart and brain. And of course we use needles and anabolics are illegal so that puts us in the junkie category, but I've not seen evidence for higher than normal HIV/Hepatitis infection rates among steroid users that don't use other illegal drugs and most of the data stating otherwise was collected back in the 80's and 90's when syringe and needles were harder to come by, which can even be a problem today as needle and syringes can be hard to source locally as drug war zealots look to restrict access. The only other possible source of infection would be the finished gear itself, but I have always recommended everyone to heat their vials to 160F for 90 minute using a heating pad set on high(heating pads don't go above 176F) as this will deactivate any virus and render bacteria incapable of reproducing using the heat and time ratio.

Well said. Yeah mine was 15 and some change maybe 5 hours after donation and last year hovered around 16. They told me if your levels high they'll draw your blood anyway to get the level down. Not sure how accurate that is.

Thats interesting to know the meters are off by that much. So it's reasonable to say you're in healthy range if you measure 18 on that meter