Contest prep cycle discussion!

[appropionate]

Perhaps we can have a general thread for ongoing discussion on this topic? Presuming enough interest. The contest prep compound experience threads on reddit cover the usual test/tren/mast/winstrol/clean cycles, so here’s what those threads haven’t answered for me:

1. If you’ve been running hgh + insulin (3iu hgh morning+evening, 10iu slin pre- & pwo), at what point do you drop the insulin, as soon as you stop bulking and shift to maintenance?
2. Do you reduce/cut the hgh a few weeks out as well? I’ve noticed the water retention from GH being closely correlated with (lack of) sleep & thus cortisol, and considering sleep usually goes to shit due to low calories & tren in contest prep, I see the point in cutting it - unless there are prep cycles excluding tren, which is another topic of interest
3. Can Primo be run throughout? It keeps me full yet dry, similar to var, but I haven’t ace/oral to cut out on short notice, so it would be enanthate. never seen it in a contest protocol.

 

[Cpizzle11]

What kind of insulin and GH are you using?

 

[appropionate]

Cpizzle11" pid='79514' dateline='1579445989:

What kind of insulin and GH are you using?

rapid acting (aspart) insulin and tbh I wasn’t aware there are different kinds of GH in terms of effects.

 

[Cpizzle11]

You started a post in hopes of an ongoing discussion right? So lay it all out there.
You’re definitely going to get different effects using Pharma grade growths vs. generics.
I was curious as to what type of slin you’re using because you said you’re doing pre and post
workout. I’ve only done it pre workout and would love to know the benefits of doing both?

 

[ForgotMuhName]

Depends on what stage of prep you’re in. If you’re only looking at the last two months or so, then you really only need enough gear to maintain anabolism and then you pick out the drugs whose ‘look’ you enjoy. Most will be combining winny/tren/mast and some tank their e2 with AI and SERM two days out for the last bit of drying up. I would recommend trying S23 and seeing if you like the look it gives at 100mg/day as well, as this is relatively new and gives a slightly different effect from Winstrol but may be more aesthetically pleasing to you. Subjective, of course.

If you’re just in bulk mode/offseason prep then go for the dry compounds stacked and it’s all about your nutrition from there.

Insulin and HGH aren’t necessary outside of Pro comps and you should be aiming to take a Pro card without those and peptides and the other ‘icing on the cake’ kind of drugs. After you’ve entered the top level of comp, then those will be mandatory to try evening the field a bit. This will probably come off as rude: Nobody posting on gear forums needs to use those. The guys winning shows aren’t hanging on here or Meso or similar; None of us are going to be on an Olympia stage any day, and the fire you’re playing with is a serious one when you begin messing with insulin.

 

[appropionate]

ForgotMuhName" pid='79536' dateline='1579459593:
I’m long done competing myself and would never run insulin, been asked by some people to coach them through their prep so I want to learn about the details of ‘unnecessary’ compounds/icing on top, as you say, as some competitors have a lack of willpower but no lack of money, and below that highest pro level, you can easily compensate for the former with the latter (by running pharma hgh for example).

 

[jtaas]

1. If you’ve been running hgh + insulin (3iu hgh morning+evening, 10iu slin pre- & pwo), at what point do you drop the insulin, as soon as you stop bulking and shift to maintenance?

If you NEED to run insulin I’d stop it when you can’t handle the insulin with the carbs in the meal plan but I wouldn’t recommend insulin at all.

1. Do you reduce/cut the hgh a few weeks out as well? I’ve noticed the water retention from GH being closely correlated with (lack of) sleep & thus cortisol, and considering sleep usually goes to shit due to low calories & tren in contest prep, I see the point in cutting it - unless there are prep cycles excluding tren, which is another topic of interest

Week out drop it

1. Can Primo be run throughout? It keeps me full yet dry, similar to var, but I haven’t ace/oral to cut out on short notice, so it would be enanthate. never seen it in a contest protocol.

Yes you can, also cut week out.

 

[emeraldbowl]

Why would you drop the promo before dropping test (if at all)

 

[GEBP]

Ok here’s where I say drop the insulin if you’re in the offseason, I recommend lowering it when you get to a point where body composition is becominjg unfavorable and appetite is non-existant. That shows leptin is maxed out and you may need a mini cut. In prep if you are using insulin, I drop it when carbs get low enough to where endogenous insulin is sufficient especially when you get very lean and insulin sensitivity is high. GH in higher dosages can lower insulin sensitivity but lower dosages can delay this much longer

The cutting on the GH depends on the person. If someone tends to hold alot of water, muscle fullness aside, on GH, then 7-10 days out. But if they flatten out badly when on it, then keep it in and just dry out as best as you can with it in.

As with primo, it doesn’t convert to estrogen, is excellent for nitrogen retention, and can have an effect on overall fullness while not affecting things like blood pressure. I normally say cut all long esters at around 7-10 days out. you can run it all prep without issues.

 

[Masterofron]

I don’t compete, nor do I ever want to (you couldn’t pay me to do that embarrassing shit), but someone please tell me why all steroids need to be dropped like a week out…? It sounds like some complete bro science shit that has to do with water retention…

A buddy of mine has a show coming up and he paid Justin Compton to do his prep. I was just asking him about this earlier and he said he has his clients run gear straight through the show, so I guess it varies per coach but is there any actual reason or science behind doing this or is it just bodybuilding bro science?

 

[appropionate]

Masterofron" pid='79584' dateline='1579509070:

I don’t compete, nor do I ever want to (you couldn’t pay me to do that embarrassing shit), but someone please tell me why all steroids need to be dropped like a week out…? It sounds like some complete bro science shit that has to do with water retention…

A buddy of mine has a show coming up and he paid Justin Compton to do his prep. I was just asking him about this earlier and he said he has his clients run gear straight through the show, so I guess it varies per coach but is there any actual reason or science behind doing this or is it just bodybuilding bro science?

please don’t overuse the term broscience when you admittedly don’t know anything yourself

everything that aromatizes or causes water retention (which isn’t all steroids if you actually read protocols, usually just test & gh & adrol etc) is cut for max dryiness/graininess, same reason why AI is raised at the very end to tank e2 further.

 

[ForgotMuhName]

Well if you’re legitimately coaching some crazy retards then here’s my input:

Insulin should not be an every day thing. Get them onto a meal plan that involves a carb refeed every 5th day or so (more or less once a week, but will overlap and be twice in a calendar week sometimes) and have them take their insulin on that day but for days where the diet is not a large carb surplus it is unnecessary and daily insulin usage will just lead to more health issues than gains when done incorrectly. Obviously I doubt you watch them pin all their shit so who fucking knows what your guys are really doing behind your back but I would fucking seriously hope they can at least use Google to learn why the hell they’re risking their lives messing with this stuff daily when it’s most likely a lot safer only once a week and the rest of the week letting your body process things naturally.

A LOT of oldschool guys claimed (there are video interviews if you look around) to drop gear cold turkey (even Test) 2 weeks out. I don’t know why, but with recreational steroid usage having very little scientific studies done it’s all just trial and error with broscience and anecdotal evidence. As far as I can tell, if it worked for Ronnie Coleman it’s worth trying.

Primo is really weak stuff and it doesn’t fit my goals so I’ve never bothered touching it. The goal is not to combine every possible steroid you can think of to make cycles, though, and whatever you’ve got going already is probably enough anyway without throwing a weak compound into the mix that may not even make noticeable changes. Fullness can be gained from being a little less dry and eating a couple honey buns before you pose. I doubt Primo is what gives you the look and rather you just happened to notice it while using Primo and your brain attributed it to the drug when it’s really just carbs and water.

 

[appropionate]

ForgotMuhName" pid='79595' dateline='1579519048:

I doubt Primo is what gives you the look and rather you just happened to notice it while using Primo and your brain attributed it to the drug when it’s really just carbs and water.

Having tried every compound myself and transitioned to trt+600mg primo+hgh and gymnastic strength training, nothing ever made as much of a difference or make me look as cut+full without even lifting than primo, so I’m a huge fan of it and have had lots of success so far including it into others protocols. it’s weak but considering the lack of side effects you can reasonably run as much as your wallet allows.

 

[Masterofron]

appropionate" pid='79590' dateline='1579513662:

Masterofron" pid='79584' dateline='1579509070:

I don’t compete, nor do I ever want to (you couldn’t pay me to do that embarrassing shit), but someone please tell me why all steroids need to be dropped like a week out…? It sounds like some complete bro science shit that has to do with water retention…

A buddy of mine has a show coming up and he paid Justin Compton to do his prep. I was just asking him about this earlier and he said he has his clients run gear straight through the show, so I guess it varies per coach but is there any actual reason or science behind doing this or is it just bodybuilding bro science?

please don’t overuse the term broscience when you admittedly don’t know anything yourself

everything that aromatizes or causes water retention (which isn’t all steroids if you actually read protocols, usually just test & gh & adrol etc) is cut for max dryiness/graininess, same reason why AI is raised at the very end to tank e2 further.

Alright fuck it, you got me haha.

 

[juicyfatpowerlifter]

appropionate" pid='79540' dateline='1579461016:

ForgotMuhName" pid='79536' dateline='1579459593:
I’m long done competing myself and would never run insulin, been asked by some people to coach them through their prep so I want to learn about the details of ‘unnecessary’ compounds/icing on top, as you say, as some competitors have a lack of willpower but no lack of money, and below that highest pro level, you can easily compensate for the former with the latter (by running pharma hgh for example).

Honestly, you are playing with fire. If some guys want a good prep coach with experience in AAS, Diuretics and Peptides, just defer them to one of the good ones out there, it isn’t really that expensive, and most importantly, you are not advising guys on doing risky stuff which could backfire to you.

Just imagine if one of those guys ends up injured/dead. Big liability. Avoid.

 

[appropionate]

appropionate" pid='79540' dateline='1579461016:

ForgotMuhName" pid='79536' dateline='1579459593:
Just imagine if one of those guys ends up injured/dead. Big liability. Avoid.

I’ve had a few clients now jump ship from IFBB pro’s coaching services (not of the highest level like Aceto, Mountain Dog etc. but well known) and seen their protocols, it’s cookie cutter copy & paste from Meso and other gear boards, putting local competitors on 10iu insulin pre-& pwo straight away with retarded gear dosages and the most nutrient deficient rice & chicken trash diets possible, not even asking for blood work before or ever.

I do try to get everyone away from tren and insulin and since I’m primary a nutritionist focused on health and love working off blood panels, hope to actually improve the local standard of contest prep.

 

[Minihulk82]

About to do a show June 20th and I’m on test e 250 week
Tren e 800 week
Eq 500 week

Will be starting soon
Mast e 800 week
Anavar 60ed

Along with everything else I am taking currently. Lol.

Gonna stop test and eq like 2 weeks out.

 

[GEBP]

Honestly a good spot I’ve garnered alot of knowledge from on gear/gh/slin usage was Jordan Peter’s forum. I’m a big fan of getting the most from the least and adding more in as needed. The more you use, the more systemic stress will accumulate and that affects Blood pressure, appetite, training performance, etc. And I will also comment on crashing E2, you want it low/manageable to give a drier look and free up stubborn fat, but if you literally crash it, good luck filling out since strogen stimulates glycogen synthesis. In fact overall, I prefer minimal AI usage because it’s going to fuck up your lipids more than a normal cycle would anyway, especially arimidex/letro. Manage dosages or utilize things like mast which I’ve seen have beneficial effects on estrogen levels.

 

[appropionate]

GEBP" pid='81351' dateline='1581228016:

And I will also comment on crashing E2, you want it low/manageable to give a drier look and free up stubborn fat, but if you literally crash it, good luck filling out since strogen stimulates glycogen synthesis.

Super interesting! So are you shooting for a certain estrogen level, like 10-15, or how do you get it into the range where there is no water retention yet glykogen retention?

Personally I’ve found to have zero water retention just by keeping it around 20-25 and optimizing diet to include nothing that causes inflammation/stress/water retention.

 

[GEBP]

I find 20-30 is well within normal to the point you can reduce fluid from estrogen conversion, but also allow for physiological function. And as long as cotrisol and training inflammation are in check, you’ll stay dry. especially when you are PEELED