Can Mast to reduce bloat from other AAS / HGH?

[trenaholic]

Over the past month I've introduced low dose tren (10mg/day) and MK677 to my stack, and each compounds has contributed incrementally to bloat I'm carry. This is despite being low body fat and eating very cleanly. Ironically the scale hasn't moved much, it just seems to be distributed a little differently than before (more of it is subq water, and its especially prominent in the face)

Ive been considering adding Mast to my stack for a while now, and was wondering if it would help shed some of the extra bloat I'm seeing. I think it would help w the tren moonface, but would it help the GH bloat? My understanding is that GH is a separate beast altogether and particularly hard to address no matter what you do

anyone have any experience here?

 

[TestDecaMast]

Yes. Mast helps me keep water retention down. But in my older age I start with diet before I add anymore Compounds. Diet was my determining factor for bloat. Deca bloats me a bit more when diet is off.

 

[Walt_Kowalski]

It is going to depend. Mast really should be the last consideration if that is your intent for it. Questions, if you are already low body fat why are you taking MK677? Unless you need to shed further fat the MK is doing diddly squat for you and I'd be very surprised to see it adding a noticeable amount of water already given the short period of use. 70mg/week of Tren (u didnt say Ace or E?)bu5t neither are going to add any bloat as they dont aromatize therefore 0 water retention.

something is off somewhere. by your own info that you wrote you used the word "prominent" to describe the water retention in your face? Mind telling us what else you have in your stack outside of what was added in the last month? Maybe some D-Bol? I'll reserve judgement until I hear what else is in your stack but up to this point what you have posted makes little sense in so far as "moonface" is concerned lol, that's not a Tren thing it's a D-Bol thing. Tren will lean you the F out and again, it doesn't aromatize so no water retention lol!

A bit of a word to the wise here for you and I am trying to be sincerely helpful here and not run you down. Your knowledge of this stuff is severely and I mean severely lacking. You shouldn't be anywhere near a "stack" until you learn far more. The willy nilly adding things in and then erroneously attributing side effects to them that aren't even physically possible doesn't make for the warm fuzzies in so far as your health/harm factor is concerned. My advice is to slow down, back up. Get what good gains you can from Test and perhaps 1 other compound and in the meantime get to learning what these things can do when used properly and what they wont do ever, lol!

I'd be seriously looking at your diet and your actual BF. Rooks never get that stuff even close so I'm guessing thats where the problems start.

 

[Thrasymachus]

Mast for me tends to get rid of ankle edema and when using Mast Prop after about 3 weeks I notice my jaw line is much more prominent.

You mentioned you eat clean, is that a low carb, lower sodium diet, you watching the calories as well?

 

[trenaholic]

It is going to depend. Mast really should be the last consideration if that is your intent for it. Questions, if you are already low body fat why are you taking MK677? Unless you need to shed further fat the MK is doing diddly squat for you and I'd be very surprised to see it adding a noticeable amount of water already given the short period of use. 70mg/week of Tren (u didnt say Ace or E?)bu5t neither are going to add any bloat as they dont aromatize therefore 0 water retention.

something is off somewhere. by your own info that you wrote you used the word "prominent" to describe the water retention in your face? Mind telling us what else you have in your stack outside of what was added in the last month? Maybe some D-Bol? I'll reserve judgement until I hear what else is in your stack but up to this point what you have posted makes little sense in so far as "moonface" is concerned lol, that's not a Tren thing it's a D-Bol thing. Tren will lean you the F out and again, it doesn't aromatize so no water retention lol!

A bit of a word to the wise here for you and I am trying to be sincerely helpful here and not run you down. Your knowledge of this stuff is severely and I mean severely lacking. You shouldn't be anywhere near a "stack" until you learn far more. The willy nilly adding things in and then erroneously attributing side effects to them that aren't even physically possible doesn't make for the warm fuzzies in so far as your health/harm factor is concerned. My advice is to slow down, back up. Get what good gains you can from Test and perhaps 1 other compound and in the meantime get to learning what these things can do when used properly and what they wont do ever, lol!

I'd be seriously looking at your diet and your actual BF. Rooks never get that stuff even close so I'm guessing thats where the problems start.

No Dbol brother. cycle is exactly as mentioned, + 250mg HCG EOD. I added MK677 for the synergistic effects it provides with Test and Tren (and the spike in IGF). Also, my sleep was suffering a bit recently, and the MK677 has helped ALOT with that. Im now routinely sleeping like a baby - it feels so good.

Let me clarify further. I just ended a bout of severe calorie restriction that I kept up all Summer and am now in bulk mode. Yes, I am starting at a low body fat. The bloat is actually strictly in my face, which ordinarily would not be a problem, but I do some fashion modeling for income and its causing some issues. My body is ripped as ever.

And to clarify even further, I've since started to realize that the facial bloat is a combination of a few factors. 1) I seem to naturally get moonface on tren, for god knows what reason. Tren makes me INCREDIBLY sensitive to the macros I put into my body. 2) high coristol. Due to previously being severely malunutrioned for my shows, and routinely only getting a few hours sleep since July/August. 3) swollen lymph nodes. Coach tells me that tren has the unfortunate side effect for some of lowering immune response, and much of the bloat I believe is actually due to this. 4) hypothyroid - I think this is more due to the calorie restriction + unhealthy diet vs the tren, which could also be a compounding factor in the swollen lymph nodes issue

To your point, tren moonface is actually incredibly common, despite the lack of aromatization. Aromatization is but one source of bloat, there are numerous other I listed above, and I believe the main cause of bloat actually comes from the modulation of the glucocorticoid receptor and how AAS skews mineral retention in the body. Hence why I was initially looking at Mast. Seeing as how I believe the moonface to be primarily indicate of sub-healthy conditions, I dont think Mast is the way to go. However if the moonface persists even after I kick those issues, I do think Mast would help w the mineral retention issue. As much as I hate solving 1 drug issue with another, sometimes its the reality of the game we play.

I appreciate the desire to look out for me and the assumption that I 'dont know what im doing', but I assure you I have a much greater grasp of my body then what you perceived. Something is just 'off' inside me though. I think the contest prep really fucked me up

 

[trenaholic]

Mast for me tends to get rid of ankle edema and when using Mast Prop after about 3 weeks I notice my jaw line is much more prominent.

You mentioned you eat clean, is that a low carb, lower sodium diet, you watching the calories as well?

Very low sodium, yes. Carbs have recently been increased as I move from severe calorie restriction to a more healthy surplus, but its not 'high carb' by any means. The switch could play a role, though.

I made a post above detailing what I think the issue is. Once I resolve my health issues though, I do believe Mast would be a suitable addition to help modulate mineral retention

Why do you have ankle edema? Thats one thing I never got

 

[Thrasymachus]

Very low sodium, yes. Carbs have recently been increased as I move from severe calorie restriction to a more healthy surplus, but its not 'high carb' by any means. The switch could play a role, though.

I made a post above detailing what I think the issue is. Once I resolve my health issues though, I do believe Mast would be a suitable addition to help modulate mineral retention

Why do you have ankle edema? Thats one thing I never got

The ankles are the first place it hits me.

You give me a little Dbol and my ankles are so big with fluid that people start commenting.

Mast Prop actually shrinks my ankles fast...within in a few days actually, the face takes longer with the jawline getting sharp.

I'm also almost 50 years old and have my own issues with what I assume is poor circulation from a hct that seems to stay at 58% or higher and has been as high as 68%.

 

[Walt_Kowalski]

No Dbol brother. cycle is exactly as mentioned, + 250mg HCG EOD. I added MK677 for the synergistic effects it provides with Test and Tren (and the spike in IGF). Also, my sleep was suffering a bit recently, and the MK677 has helped ALOT with that. Im now routinely sleeping like a baby - it feels so good.

Let me clarify further. I just ended a bout of severe calorie restriction that I kept up all Summer and am now in bulk mode. Yes, I am starting at a low body fat. The bloat is actually strictly in my face, which ordinarily would not be a problem, but I do some fashion modeling for income and its causing some issues. My body is ripped as ever.

And to clarify even further, I've since started to realize that the facial bloat is a combination of a few factors. 1) I seem to naturally get moonface on tren, for god knows what reason. Tren makes me INCREDIBLY sensitive to the macros I put into my body. 2) high coristol. Due to previously being severely malunutrioned for my shows, and routinely only getting a few hours sleep since July/August. 3) swollen lymph nodes. Coach tells me that tren has the unfortunate side effect for some of lowering immune response, and much of the bloat I believe is actually due to this. 4) hypothyroid - I think this is more due to the calorie restriction + unhealthy diet vs the tren, which could also be a compounding factor in the swollen lymph nodes issue

To your point, tren moonface is actually incredibly common, despite the lack of aromatization. Aromatization is but one source of bloat, there are numerous other I listed above, and I believe the main cause of bloat actually comes from the modulation of the glucocorticoid receptor and how AAS skews mineral retention in the body. Hence why I was initially looking at Mast. Seeing as how I believe the moonface to be primarily indicate of sub-healthy conditions, I dont think Mast is the way to go. However if the moonface persists even after I kick those issues, I do think Mast would help w the mineral retention issue. As much as I hate solving 1 drug issue with another, sometimes its the reality of the game we play.

I appreciate the desire to look out for me and the assumption that I 'dont know what im doing', but I assure you I have a much greater grasp of my body then what you perceived. Something is just 'off' inside me though. I think the contest prep really fucked me up

Well, after that, I'll stand by my initial thoughts and just re-affirm my same advice. Even if any of that was on point, which it is not, by your own admission you are literally killing yourself with the damage on top of damage caused by your AAS use!
All AAS have been thought to negatively effect immune system response at one time or another however there is just as much new info and study data currently to suggest a significant immuno boosting effect, Unless you are a rainbow trout masquerading as a body builder there isn't anyone even claiming that AAS are definitive in negative immuno affectation, so your coach doesn't know what he's talking about either! You getting coached by Chad Nicholls lol!.
back to the moonface though. The more correct assertion regarding Tren and moonface is that people "claim" that it regularly causes this. In every circumstance that I have personally run into over decades there has been another culprit./ If not then there's a simple test/fix. get your Prolactin lvls under control, if they are off, and that would eliminate any possibility of Tren as the culprit.
As it stands though it sounds to me like either you are not particularly healthy, and shouldnt be anywhere near AAS, You're definitely getting bad/incorrect advice from whomever your genius coach is as his Tren/immune info is dated and incorrect. You keep attributing sides to things but never point out how you even know these are the cause. You can't just assume. I think in actual fact your best bet at this point is to stop everything entirely, clean your system out and start back if you must with 1 compound at a time so you can actually tell wtf isw happening!
Anyway, best of luck.

 

[trenaholic]

Well, after that, I'll stand by my initial thoughts and just re-affirm my same advice. Even if any of that was on point, which it is not, by your own admission you are literally killing yourself with the damage on top of damage caused by your AAS use!
All AAS have been thought to negatively effect immune system response at one time or another however there is just as much new info and study data currently to suggest a significant immuno boosting effect, Unless you are a rainbow trout masquerading as a body builder there isn't anyone even claiming that AAS are definitive in negative immuno affectation, so your coach doesn't know what he's talking about either! You getting coached by Chad Nicholls lol!.
back to the moonface though. The more correct assertion regarding Tren and moonface is that people "claim" that it regularly causes this. In every circumstance that I have personally run into over decades there has been another culprit./ If not then there's a simple test/fix. get your Prolactin lvls under control, if they are off, and that would eliminate any possibility of Tren as the culprit.
As it stands though it sounds to me like either you are not particularly healthy, and shouldnt be anywhere near AAS, You're definitely getting bad/incorrect advice from whomever your genius coach is as his Tren/immune info is dated and incorrect. You keep attributing sides to things but never point out how you even know these are the cause. You can't just assume. I think in actual fact your best bet at this point is to stop everything entirely, clean your system out and start back if you must with 1 compound at a time so you can actually tell wtf isw happening!
Anyway, best of luck.

I will say I didn't get my prolactin checked, as I didn't see a need to. My dosage is so small @ 10mg/day I didn't figure it would need testing. But, I should have. I will for my next blood test.


Your assertions that AAS are not immunosuppressive are simply wrong. Also, have you ever dieted for a show? Or any event? I dont get the sense that you have. Outside of the lymphatic issues I outlined which are indeed unique to me, the issues Im experiencing are fairly common due to the rigors of a pre-contest lifestyle... especially when one tries to maintain these conditions for far too long.


My "speculations" are not pulled from thin air but blood tests that checked for Thyroid, doctor who physically examined my lymph nodes, etc. But, I get the feeling we are living in 2 separate universes here. Removing the tren is the low hanging fruit and will likely be my next recourse should things not improve. Thanks for your commentary.

 

[Thrasymachus]

I will say I didn't get my prolactin checked, as I didn't see a need to. My dosage is so small @ 10mg/day I didn't figure it would need testing. But, I should have. I will for my next blood test.


Your assertions that AAS are not immunosuppressive are simply wrong. Also, have you ever dieted for a show? Or any event? I dont get the sense that you have. Outside of the lymphatic issues I outlined which are indeed unique to me, the issues Im experiencing are fairly common due to the rigors of a pre-contest lifestyle... especially when one tries to maintain these conditions for far too long.


My "speculations" are not pulled from thin air but blood tests that checked for Thyroid, doctor who physically examined my lymph nodes, etc. But, I get the feeling we are living in 2 separate universes here. Removing the tren is the low hanging fruit and will likely be my next recourse should things not improve. Thanks for your commentary.

Preparing for a show is probably about the most unhealthy thing you could possibly do to the human body. It's a totally unnatural state for someone to be freakishly shredded.

The immune system is extremely complex. I would think aas is both suppressive and boosting depending on what the problem is. So while I could see colds, flu being easier to catch. Serious immune diseases could be helped in the long term by anabolics such as HIV, HEP C, B and so on.