Question about starting TrT

[AwildBird]

Hello,

Long-time lurker here.

I am 31(M) looking to start TrT for the rest of my life, but haven't had bloods done in ~4 years (with my last cycle). I am wondering if anyone has any tips/tricks for what to say to the doc and how to optimize test results (i.e., crash test)? Based on how I feel I'd guess my T levels are ~400-500 ng/dL since that's pretty normal for me.

I am wondering if doing a test-E cycle then ceasing use 8-9 days prior to fasted bloodwork would be a sure-fire way of hitting it?

Any tips are appreciated!

 

[Greenbay68]

Can I ask why you want a doctor to do it, Instead of DIY TRT?

Switch from dr to ugl has saved me countless hours and quite a bit of money too.

 

[Deleted member 21405]

Can I ask why you want a doctor to do it, Instead of DIY TRT?

Switch from dr to ugl has saved me countless hours and quite a bit of money too.

You ain't kidding. I go to a clinic and it's pricey. Not like people think on social media when they knock Joe Rogan for doing it, but still significantly more than UGL.

The reason I went on was because I was before for tanking my e2 and feeling like garbage and didn't have the resources I have now like this board. This is my second round now with them and its because I couldn't get my shit in check and wanted a medical opinion and some super clean pharma and to level things out.

Advice for OP. Go to one where the guy used to be a juicehead. Usually that's who decides to start these places. A PCP is likely gonna find a reason to not put you on. Tell them you have experience running gear and you want to be on pharma because you are getting sides. Simple as that.

 

[Greenbay68]

You ain't kidding. I go to a clinic and it's pricey. Not like people think on social media when they knock Joe Rogan for doing it, but still significantly more than UGL.

The reason I went on was because I was before for tanking my e2 and feeling like garbage and didn't have the resources I have now like this board. This is my second round now with them and its because I couldn't get my shit in check and wanted a medical opinion and some super clean pharma and to level things out.

Advice for OP. Go to one where the guy used to be a juicehead. Usually that's who decides to start these places. A PCP is likely gonna find a reason to not put you on. Tell them you have experience running gear and you want to be on pharma because you are getting sides. Simple as that.

I’ll second this. I started at a famous online TRT clinic for the first year for $200 a month. Once I got dialed in, I quit 6 months later.

Instead of $2400 a year, I now send about $400 for test and bloods. More importantly, I control my health decisions and options.

 

[Luxferro]

Clinics are ridiculously expensive. Cheapter to do it yourself. I recommend a starting dose of 150 mg per week split into more frequent injections (either ED or EOD or at least 3x/week). Don't use an AI at first. Do 100-200 IU HCG EOD. Get bloods at 6 weeks and evaluate from there. Expect some transient nipple sensitivity to start out with. This is not gyno and is normal. Use some nolvadex until the sensitivity goes away.

 

[AHomie]

Clinics are ridiculously expensive. Cheapter to do it yourself. I recommend a starting dose of 150 mg per week split into more frequent injections (either ED or EOD or at least 3x/week). Don't use an AI at first. Do 100-200 IU HCG EOD. Get bloods at 6 weeks and evaluate from there. Expect some transient nipple sensitivity to start out with. This is not gyno and is normal. Use some nolvadex until the sensitivity goes away.

Should the day we get blood work done be any specific time since our last injection of test or hcg? Also currently doing 250 IU HCG EOD can I bump it down to 150-200?

 

[Luxferro]

Should the day we get blood work done be any specific time since our last injection of test or hcg? Also currently doing 250 IU HCG EOD can I bump it down to 150-200?

150-200 is good. Use the lowest dose necessary to prevent atrophy. If your balls start hurting and shrinking, increase dose by 50 IU.

You should get blood work at a trough. This means right before your next injection. If you inject test 2x per week (Say Monday morning and Thursday evening), you should get your blood work done Thursday or Monday before your shot.

Injecting more frequently is a good idea to ensure greater stability in blood serum levels. What is your starting dose?

 

[Thrasymachus]

There's no guidance to give.

If your doctor will allow you to go on while your T levels are 500ng/dl, that's gonna be someone more than likely focusing on HRT or TRT, not a GP that is involved in all aspects of family medicine.

In your case go to the doctor as is and try and see what happens, but I think your average GP won't treat at 500ng/dl. These days your more conservative GP won't treat unless you're below 300ng/dl or even 250ng/dl.

UGL works as long as you know how to interpret your labs, can do your own therapeutic phlebotomy, have your ancillaries to control sides, blood pressure, E2 lined up.

I wouldn't make a statement like I'm on TRT for life if you've still got balls that will put out 500ng/dl. The truth is you need to keep those nuts working, avoid years of suppression. A healthy man needs to produce his own FSH/LH and if I had 500ng/dl natural production, there's no way I'd touch TRT. In my case my nuts were spitting out 248ng/dl when I finally went on, but if I had 500ng/dl, no way would I touch this stuff.

Of course anabolics work, they put on muscle fast, they increase strength. There's no comparison with natural, that said, healthy is natural in most cases even at lower levels of T and for those that must go on it's better if you can use the anabolics in such a way that you zero out on a regular basis to get your nuts working and your brain signaling. I'm currently in my 35th day of no gear and I actually fill pretty damn good, my nuts are getting heavier, I'm calmer, my loads are larger and yes I notice the muscles are starting to lose size, but I'll go like this for as long as possible, more than likely for 90 days and then hop back on...rinse and repeat.

 

[AHomie]

150-200 is good. Use the lowest dose necessary to prevent atrophy. If your balls start hurting and shrinking, increase dose by 50 IU.

You should get blood work at a trough. This means right before your next injection. If you inject test 2x per week (Say Monday morning and Thursday evening), you should get your blood work done Thursday or Monday before your shot.

Injecting more frequently is a good idea to ensure greater stability in blood serum levels. What is your starting dose?

200mg a week / 100mg E3.5D

I may switch to more frequent dosing once I get the hang on pinning. Still learning which spot is best for me. Thanks for the response!

 

[Luxferro]

200mg a week / 100mg E3.5D

I may switch to more frequent dosing once I get the hang on pinning. Still learning which spot is best for me. Thanks for the response!

Don't start at 200 mg. That's an excessive dose. Start at 140. You can easily increase dose if it's not enough, but it's much more of a pain in the ass to go down because you have to wait a LONG time for the drug to clear enough from your bloodstream. Start low, titrate up.

 

[AwildBird]

Can I ask why you want a doctor to do it, Instead of DIY TRT?

Switch from dr to ugl has saved me countless hours and quite a bit of money too.

I think I'm a bit of a wimp when it comes to running TRT w UGL. Something about having a prescribing physician to consult + pharma gear feels a bit more sustainable longterm.

Cost-wise it definitely makes sense...

 

[AwildBird]

There's no guidance to give.

If your doctor will allow you to go on while your T levels are 500ng/dl, that's gonna be someone more than likely focusing on HRT or TRT, not a GP that is involved in all aspects of family medicine.

In your case go to the doctor as is and try and see what happens, but I think your average GP won't treat at 500ng/dl. These days your more conservative GP won't treat unless you're below 300ng/dl or even 250ng/dl.

UGL works as long as you know how to interpret your labs, can do your own therapeutic phlebotomy, have your ancillaries to control sides, blood pressure, E2 lined up.

I wouldn't make a statement like I'm on TRT for life if you've still got balls that will put out 500ng/dl. The truth is you need to keep those nuts working, avoid years of suppression. A healthy man needs to produce his own FSH/LH and if I had 500ng/dl natural production, there's no way I'd touch TRT. In my case my nuts were spitting out 248ng/dl when I finally went on, but if I had 500ng/dl, no way would I touch this stuff.

Of course anabolics work, they put on muscle fast, they increase strength. There's no comparison with natural, that said, healthy is natural in most cases even at lower levels of T and for those that must go on it's better if you can use the anabolics in such a way that you zero out on a regular basis to get your nuts working and your brain signaling. I'm currently in my 35th day of no gear and I actually fill pretty damn good, my nuts are getting heavier, I'm calmer, my loads are larger and yes I notice the muscles are starting to lose size, but I'll go like this for as long as possible, more than likely for 90 days and then hop back on...rinse and repeat.

Thanks for the input!

I'm wondering if I could just bomb a test to pop below 300-500 ng/dL?

I'm cool interpreting labs, but am unsure what you mean about therpeutic phlebotomy? Do you mean using a third party self-bloods site or actually drawing my own blood? haha

Would you just keep doing cycles if your nuts were still functioning? I'm wondering if that's the route I go to ensure I'm providing my nuts a chance to recover between periods of time. I always do a thorough nolva/clom PCT and use HcG when on cycle. Thoughts there?

I'm also not certain if they're pumping 500 at this moment - it's just what I remember last time I had off-cycle bloods completed several years ago. It could very well be a bit lower. Thinking out loud that's probably a good starting point. Any recommendations on affordable self blood work if my GP wont order?



When you say rinse and repeat - is that your play for the rest of your life?

 

[Greenbay68]

I

I think I'm a bit of a wimp when it comes to running TRT w UGL. Something about having a prescribing physician to consult + pharma gear feels a bit more sustainable longterm.

Cost-wise it definitely makes sense..

I think I'm a bit of a wimp when it comes to running TRT w UGL. Something about having a prescribing physician to consult + pharma gear feels a bit more sustainable longterm.

Cost-wise it definitely makes sense...

I get it. It’s not an easy choice.

I’m also a bit of a prepper, and I like having 3-4 years of test on hand. I don’t like doing the whole pharmacy visit every month or two

 

[Thrasymachus]

Thanks for the input!

I'm wondering if I could just bomb a test to pop below 300-500 ng/dL?

I'm cool interpreting labs, but am unsure what you mean about therpeutic phlebotomy? Do you mean using a third party self-bloods site or actually drawing my own blood? haha

Would you just keep doing cycles if your nuts were still functioning? I'm wondering if that's the route I go to ensure I'm providing my nuts a chance to recover between periods of time. I always do a thorough nolva/clom PCT and use HcG when on cycle. Thoughts there?

I'm also not certain if they're pumping 500 at this moment - it's just what I remember last time I had off-cycle bloods completed several years ago. It could very well be a bit lower. Thinking out loud that's probably a good starting point. Any recommendations on affordable self blood work if my GP wont order?



When you say rinse and repeat - is that your play for the rest of your life?

I draw my own blood on a regular basis removing 1+ liters at a time. Last blood draw was 3 months ago, I removed 1350ml.

As for keeping your nuts and brain working properly, I think for long term health it doesn't make sense to go long periods without restoring natural function. Of course I do it naturally using T-Acetate for 6 weeks leading up to the point where I'm gonna stop because cypionate can stay in your system for up to 50+ days and acetate should be cleared in 10 days. I don't use any PCT drugs like SERMS, AI, hCG. I just quit and let the brain pick up and let the balls get to work plumping up, then when I'm feeling weak again because my natural levels are on the low side I start back up for a few months and then start the whole thing over again.

TRT can let your nuts completely atrophy, mine have been the size of almonds. This is as dumb as putting yourself in a wheelchair and deciding not to use your legs anymore as they waste away. Sending a part of your body into hibernation for years on end doesn't make sense. And I'm not sure, but I gotta think LH and FSH serve more purpose than just signaling for sexual function, the body is too complex to only perform one task.

Rinse and repeat: in my case means cycles, ....on to build strength/off to restore natural function......over and over.

 

[Deleted member 21405]

I’ll second this. I started at a famous online TRT clinic for the first year for $200 a month. Once I got dialed in, I quit 6 months later.

Instead of $2400 a year, I now send about $400 for test and bloods. More importantly, I control my health decisions and options.

Mine is $125 a month for 200mg weekly. They have other stuff but it's pricey. I was feeling like trash and now I feel decent. Def getting smaller, not very vascular and somewhat chubby to be honest. But I'll ride it out a bit and plan to cycle over the winter and gain some size back.

 

[AwildBird]

I draw my own blood on a regular basis removing 1+ liters at a time. Last blood draw was 3 months ago, I removed 1350ml.

As for keeping your nuts and brain working properly, I think for long term health it doesn't make sense to go long periods without restoring natural function. Of course I do it naturally using T-Acetate for 6 weeks leading up to the point where I'm gonna stop because cypionate can stay in your system for up to 50+ days and acetate should be cleared in 10 days. I don't use any PCT drugs like SERMS, AI, hCG. I just quit and let the brain pick up and let the balls get to work plumping up, then when I'm feeling weak again because my natural levels are on the low side I start back up for a few months and then start the whole thing over again.

TRT can let your nuts completely atrophy, mine have been the size of almonds. This is as dumb as putting yourself in a wheelchair and deciding not to use your legs anymore as they waste away. Sending a part of your body into hibernation for years on end doesn't make sense. And I'm not sure, but I gotta think LH and FSH serve more purpose than just signaling for sexual function, the body is too complex to only perform one task.

Rinse and repeat: in my case means cycles, ....on to build strength/off to restore natural function......over and over.

Thank you for your insight! How do you get bloods done if you're drawing from yourself? What country are you sending your own blood out?

 

[Thrasymachus]

Thank you for your insight! How do you get bloods done if you're drawing from yourself? What country are you sending your own blood out?

I get labs done through privateMDlabs, just like many guys do with testing through Quest. Blood is collected at a draw center.

I do my own therapeutic blood draw to get rid of the sides of too high hct. Red Cross can do a power red removal every 4 months and that's a good option for most, but there is a upper limit cut off for hgb and if you go over they won't collect your blood which is usually 20g/dl and I'm almost always over that, besides the Red Cross sucks at blood removal. I got good veins and the idiots they hire are usually green and screw up the donation.

Also I used to work as a Hospital Medical Technologist for 25 years, I've done well over 50,000 phlebotomies in all ages, so drawing my own blood, weighing removed blood, calculating what I need to remove to achieve a normal hgb based on my muscle mass/body fat and height isn't difficult. I can do what the Red Cross really doesn't do and that's completely relieve myself of the miserable side effects of high hgb, where's the Red Cross isn't gonna take that extra unit of blood I need to drastically drop my hgb to where I feel fantastic at least for a few months.

Of course sometimes I draw off blood into an EDTA 10ml tube and set it into a vertical position for 48-72hrs to let all the red blood cells separate from the plasma to determine what my hematocrit approximately is by measuring RBC and Total volume in millimeters and taking RBC mm/Total volume mm to get hematocrit and then subtract 2% due to it not being ran through an analyzer that would determine a true hgb/hct count/calculation by eliminating all plasma that would normally be trapped among the red blood cells in the sample that I'm using due to just using gravity and not using lysing solutions that are used in hematology analyzers to get a more accurate red count/hgb concentration.

 

[Jbloom067]

How many months in advance are you able to get pharma medication for? In other words, if price wasn’t a factor, how feasible would it be to abuse the system and put yourself on 500 mg a week for 3 months?

Mine is $125 a month for 200mg weekly. They have other stuff but it's pricey. I was feeling like trash and now I feel decent. Def getting smaller, not very vascular and somewhat chubby to be honest. But I'll ride it out a bit and plan to cycle over the winter and gain some size back.

w

 

[Thrasymachus]

How many months in advance are you able to get pharma medication for? In other words, if price wasn’t a factor, how feasible would it be to abuse the system and put yourself on 500 mg a week for 3 months?

w

Are you talking about hording T for a 500mg cycle?

Online doctors might be the only route to getting enough to blast.

 

[Jbloom067]

Are you talking about hording T for a 500mg cycle?

Online doctors might be the only route to getting enough to blast.

Yes hording for a 12-16 week 500mg cycle. I'm assuming no doc would prescribe that much? When you pick up your meds, are you able to get it enough for 3 months in advance? Or are you picking it up on a monthly basis?