8-9 Month cycle PCT discussion

[CAMELBAKWaterBottle]

Roughly 10weeks out from finishing what would be a 8-9 month blast and cruise session…
Curious as to what would be an appropriate PCT for this length of cycle.

I Have quite a bit of HCG, Aromasin, Nolvadex and Clomid on hand…
15,000iu HCG to play with
2000mg Nolvadex on hand
5000mg Clomid on hand
787.5mg Aromasin on hand (63x 12.5mg caps)
Can get more of any or all if necessary.

Remaining cycles is as follows:
4weeks 500mg/wk Test-E (12.5mg Aromasin EOD)
2weeks 375mg/wk Test-E (12.5mg Aromasin EOD - E3D)
2 Weeks 250mg/wk Test-E (10mg Aromasin EOD - E3D)
2 Weeks 150mg/wk Test-E (10mg Aromasin EOD-E3D)

Now here comes the debate:
Do I start running HCG now throughout the remainder of cycle at 250-500IU until completion and add a 10-14 day HCG Blast at the end as well?
OR
Hold off on all HCG usage until the end and commit to a hefty 14-21 day blast?
During HCG blast I have read to use low dosage of Nolva or Aromasin… What are peoples opinion here on the matter?
Regarding the start of HCG Blast - what are most peoples opinions on when to start? 7 days after last pin? 14 days? sooner than 7 days? There is quite a lot of ambiguity on this topic it would appear.

Lastly after the completion of HCG blast what should serm therapy look like?
Any thoughts on the regimen that follows?
Nolvadex: wk 1-3 40mg/day, wk 4-5 20mg/day, wk6 20mg or 10mg/day
Clomid: wk 1-3 100mg/day, wk 4-6 50mg/day

What does SST think?

 

[RipRich69]

CAMELBAKWaterBottle" pid='13031' dateline='1526173073:

Roughly 10weeks out from finishing what would be a 8-9 month blast and cruise session…
Curious as to what would be an appropriate PCT for this length of cycle.

I Have quite a bit of HCG, Aromasin, Nolvadex and Clomid on hand…
15,000iu HCG to play with
2000mg Nolvadex on hand
5000mg Clomid on hand
787.5mg Aromasin on hand (63x 12.5mg caps)
Can get more of any or all if necessary.

Remaining cycles is as follows:
4weeks 500mg/wk Test-E (12.5mg Aromasin EOD)
2weeks 375mg/wk Test-E (12.5mg Aromasin EOD - E3D)
2 Weeks 250mg/wk Test-E (10mg Aromasin EOD - E3D)
2 Weeks 150mg/wk Test-E (10mg Aromasin EOD-E3D)

Now here comes the debate:
Do I start running HCG now throughout the remainder of cycle at 250-500IU until completion and add a 10-14 day HCG Blast at the end as well?
OR
Hold off on all HCG usage until the end and commit to a hefty 14-21 day blast?
During HCG blast I have read to use low dosage of Nolva or Aromasin… What are peoples opinion here on the matter?
Regarding the start of HCG Blast - what are most peoples opinions on when to start? 7 days after last pin? 14 days? sooner than 7 days? There is quite a lot of ambiguity on this topic it would appear.

Lastly after the completion of HCG blast what should serm therapy look like?
Any thoughts on the regimen that follows?
Nolvadex: wk 1-3 40mg/day, wk 4-5 20mg/day, wk6 20mg or 10mg/day
Clomid: wk 1-3 100mg/day, wk 4-6 50mg/day

What does SST think?

I have no experience with this, but I am just curious for your reasoning to come off?

 

[CAMELBAKWaterBottle]

RipRich69" pid='13033' dateline='1526173417:

CAMELBAKWaterBottle" pid='13031' dateline='1526173073:

Roughly 10weeks out from finishing what would be a 8-9 month blast and cruise session…
Curious as to what would be an appropriate PCT for this length of cycle.

I Have quite a bit of HCG, Aromasin, Nolvadex and Clomid on hand…
15,000iu HCG to play with
2000mg Nolvadex on hand
5000mg Clomid on hand
787.5mg Aromasin on hand (63x 12.5mg caps)
Can get more of any or all if necessary.

Remaining cycles is as follows:
4weeks 500mg/wk Test-E (12.5mg Aromasin EOD)
2weeks 375mg/wk Test-E (12.5mg Aromasin EOD - E3D)
2 Weeks 250mg/wk Test-E (10mg Aromasin EOD - E3D)
2 Weeks 150mg/wk Test-E (10mg Aromasin EOD-E3D)

Now here comes the debate:
Do I start running HCG now throughout the remainder of cycle at 250-500IU until completion and add a 10-14 day HCG Blast at the end as well?
OR
Hold off on all HCG usage until the end and commit to a hefty 14-21 day blast?
During HCG blast I have read to use low dosage of Nolva or Aromasin… What are peoples opinion here on the matter?
Regarding the start of HCG Blast - what are most peoples opinions on when to start? 7 days after last pin? 14 days? sooner than 7 days? There is quite a lot of ambiguity on this topic it would appear.

Lastly after the completion of HCG blast what should serm therapy look like?
Any thoughts on the regimen that follows?
Nolvadex: wk 1-3 40mg/day, wk 4-5 20mg/day, wk6 20mg or 10mg/day
Clomid: wk 1-3 100mg/day, wk 4-6 50mg/day

What does SST think?

I have no experience with this, but I am just curious for your reasoning to come off?

Things in life have changed direction unfortunately lol…

 

[10gramsuvtrenEOD]

CAMELBAKWaterBottle" pid='13035' dateline='1526173563:

RipRich69" pid='13033' dateline='1526173417:

CAMELBAKWaterBottle" pid='13031' dateline='1526173073:

Roughly 10weeks out from finishing what would be a 8-9 month blast and cruise session…
Curious as to what would be an appropriate PCT for this length of cycle.

I Have quite a bit of HCG, Aromasin, Nolvadex and Clomid on hand…
15,000iu HCG to play with
2000mg Nolvadex on hand
5000mg Clomid on hand
787.5mg Aromasin on hand (63x 12.5mg caps)
Can get more of any or all if necessary.

Remaining cycles is as follows:
4weeks 500mg/wk Test-E (12.5mg Aromasin EOD)
2weeks 375mg/wk Test-E (12.5mg Aromasin EOD - E3D)
2 Weeks 250mg/wk Test-E (10mg Aromasin EOD - E3D)
2 Weeks 150mg/wk Test-E (10mg Aromasin EOD-E3D)

Now here comes the debate:
Do I start running HCG now throughout the remainder of cycle at 250-500IU until completion and add a 10-14 day HCG Blast at the end as well?
OR
Hold off on all HCG usage until the end and commit to a hefty 14-21 day blast?
During HCG blast I have read to use low dosage of Nolva or Aromasin… What are peoples opinion here on the matter?
Regarding the start of HCG Blast - what are most peoples opinions on when to start? 7 days after last pin? 14 days? sooner than 7 days? There is quite a lot of ambiguity on this topic it would appear.

Lastly after the completion of HCG blast what should serm therapy look like?
Any thoughts on the regimen that follows?
Nolvadex: wk 1-3 40mg/day, wk 4-5 20mg/day, wk6 20mg or 10mg/day
Clomid: wk 1-3 100mg/day, wk 4-6 50mg/day

What does SST think?

I have no experience with this, but I am just curious for your reasoning to come off?

Things in life have changed direction unfortunately lol…

also fucking duh

 

[CAMELBAKWaterBottle]

10gramsuvtrenEOD" pid='13042' dateline='1526177688:

CAMELBAKWaterBottle" pid='13035' dateline='1526173563:

RipRich69" pid='13033' dateline='1526173417:

CAMELBAKWaterBottle" pid='13031' dateline='1526173073:

Roughly 10weeks out from finishing what would be a 8-9 month blast and cruise session…
Curious as to what would be an appropriate PCT for this length of cycle.

I Have quite a bit of HCG, Aromasin, Nolvadex and Clomid on hand…
15,000iu HCG to play with
2000mg Nolvadex on hand
5000mg Clomid on hand
787.5mg Aromasin on hand (63x 12.5mg caps)
Can get more of any or all if necessary.

Remaining cycles is as follows:
4weeks 500mg/wk Test-E (12.5mg Aromasin EOD)
2weeks 375mg/wk Test-E (12.5mg Aromasin EOD - E3D)
2 Weeks 250mg/wk Test-E (10mg Aromasin EOD - E3D)
2 Weeks 150mg/wk Test-E (10mg Aromasin EOD-E3D)

Now here comes the debate:
Do I start running HCG now throughout the remainder of cycle at 250-500IU until completion and add a 10-14 day HCG Blast at the end as well?
OR
Hold off on all HCG usage until the end and commit to a hefty 14-21 day blast?
During HCG blast I have read to use low dosage of Nolva or Aromasin… What are peoples opinion here on the matter?
Regarding the start of HCG Blast - what are most peoples opinions on when to start? 7 days after last pin? 14 days? sooner than 7 days? There is quite a lot of ambiguity on this topic it would appear.

Lastly after the completion of HCG blast what should serm therapy look like?
Any thoughts on the regimen that follows?
Nolvadex: wk 1-3 40mg/day, wk 4-5 20mg/day, wk6 20mg or 10mg/day
Clomid: wk 1-3 100mg/day, wk 4-6 50mg/day

What does SST think?

I have no experience with this, but I am just curious for your reasoning to come off?

Things in life have changed direction unfortunately lol…

also fucking duh

Solid response…? Didn’t feel like I needed to explain myself and choices lol. It’s no ones business but mine.

If we could keep all “bull shit” style commenting to a minimum that would be great. No opinion on question/topic at hand? Move to next thread… It’s really that simple.

 

[Scuba_Greaves]

I wish I could help you. Solid topic, and I’m currently going on 7th month of blast and cruise. Definitely looking forward to legit answer.

 

[DNPstoney]

CAMELBAKWaterBottle" pid='13031' dateline='1526173073:

Roughly 10weeks out from finishing what would be a 8-9 month blast and cruise session…
Curious as to what would be an appropriate PCT for this length of cycle.

I Have quite a bit of HCG, Aromasin, Nolvadex and Clomid on hand…
15,000iu HCG to play with
2000mg Nolvadex on hand
5000mg Clomid on hand
787.5mg Aromasin on hand (63x 12.5mg caps)
Can get more of any or all if necessary.

Remaining cycles is as follows:
4weeks 500mg/wk Test-E (12.5mg Aromasin EOD)
2weeks 375mg/wk Test-E (12.5mg Aromasin EOD - E3D)
2 Weeks 250mg/wk Test-E (10mg Aromasin EOD - E3D)
2 Weeks 150mg/wk Test-E (10mg Aromasin EOD-E3D)

Now here comes the debate:
Do I start running HCG now throughout the remainder of cycle at 250-500IU until completion and add a 10-14 day HCG Blast at the end as well?
OR
Hold off on all HCG usage until the end and commit to a hefty 14-21 day blast?
During HCG blast I have read to use low dosage of Nolva or Aromasin… What are peoples opinion here on the matter?
Regarding the start of HCG Blast - what are most peoples opinions on when to start? 7 days after last pin? 14 days? sooner than 7 days? There is quite a lot of ambiguity on this topic it would appear.

Lastly after the completion of HCG blast what should serm therapy look like?
Any thoughts on the regimen that follows?
Nolvadex: wk 1-3 40mg/day, wk 4-5 20mg/day, wk6 20mg or 10mg/day
Clomid: wk 1-3 100mg/day, wk 4-6 50mg/day

What does SST think?

IMO, you don’t really need to taper down, especially going that slow. You might have some issues dealing with E2 sides - but it’s up to you if you want to do that.

I would run HCG now through the end of your cycle, then run the 10-14 day blast with whatever you have left.

No need for Nolvadex during HCG. Take aromasin as you would normally - maybe add a bit more when you are still running test (I.E. up the aromasin from 10 to 12.5 for the last for weeks, and the run 10mg/E3.5D during your 2 weeks off if you are still running HCG.

Start HCG blast the week after last pin. So if you pin Mon/Thurs, start on Sunday or Monday (whenever you start your weeks). Then run it for 10-14 days. After 2 weeks, start PCT and no more HCG injections.

PCT I would go for:

Nolva: 60/40/40/20/20/20
Clomid: 100/50/50/25/25/25

Disclaimer: I am currently BnC, this is just the protocol I would follow if I had to PCT in the near future.

 

[CAMELBAKWaterBottle]

ryantheco" pid='13078' dateline='1526214649:

CAMELBAKWaterBottle" pid='13031' dateline='1526173073:

Roughly 10weeks out from finishing what would be a 8-9 month blast and cruise session…
Curious as to what would be an appropriate PCT for this length of cycle.

I Have quite a bit of HCG, Aromasin, Nolvadex and Clomid on hand…
15,000iu HCG to play with
2000mg Nolvadex on hand
5000mg Clomid on hand
787.5mg Aromasin on hand (63x 12.5mg caps)
Can get more of any or all if necessary.

Remaining cycles is as follows:
4weeks 500mg/wk Test-E (12.5mg Aromasin EOD)
2weeks 375mg/wk Test-E (12.5mg Aromasin EOD - E3D)
2 Weeks 250mg/wk Test-E (10mg Aromasin EOD - E3D)
2 Weeks 150mg/wk Test-E (10mg Aromasin EOD-E3D)

Now here comes the debate:
Do I start running HCG now throughout the remainder of cycle at 250-500IU until completion and add a 10-14 day HCG Blast at the end as well?
OR
Hold off on all HCG usage until the end and commit to a hefty 14-21 day blast?
During HCG blast I have read to use low dosage of Nolva or Aromasin… What are peoples opinion here on the matter?
Regarding the start of HCG Blast - what are most peoples opinions on when to start? 7 days after last pin? 14 days? sooner than 7 days? There is quite a lot of ambiguity on this topic it would appear.

Lastly after the completion of HCG blast what should serm therapy look like?
Any thoughts on the regimen that follows?
Nolvadex: wk 1-3 40mg/day, wk 4-5 20mg/day, wk6 20mg or 10mg/day
Clomid: wk 1-3 100mg/day, wk 4-6 50mg/day

What does SST think?

IMO, you don’t really need to taper down, especially going that slow. You might have some issues dealing with E2 sides - but it’s up to you if you want to do that.

I would run HCG now through the end of your cycle, then run the 10-14 day blast with whatever you have left.

No need for Nolvadex during HCG. Take aromasin as you would normally - maybe add a bit more when you are still running test (I.E. up the aromasin from 10 to 12.5 for the last for weeks, and the run 10mg/E3.5D during your 2 weeks off if you are still running HCG.

Start HCG blast the week after last pin. So if you pin Mon/Thurs, start on Sunday or Monday (whenever you start your weeks). Then run it for 10-14 days. After 2 weeks, start PCT and no more HCG injections.

PCT I would go for:

Nolva: 60/40/40/20/20/20
Clomid: 100/50/50/25/25/25

Disclaimer: I am currently BnC, this is just the protocol I would follow if I had to PCT in the near future.

Appreciate your input, just curious because i’ve never seen it mentioned the way you suggested but regarding serm therapy…
Why 60/40/40/20/20/20 for nolva
and 100/50/50/25/25/25 for clomid?
I’ve seen quite a variety of serm therapy suggestions and this isnt far off from many i’ve seen i’m just curious as to why heavier on nolva than clomid?

Also appreciate e2 input, I don’t see this being an issue for me as i’ve never struggled with it. BF % down between 7-8% currently as well so that should help too… But I will be mindful nevertheless. Thank you

 

[DNPstoney]

CAMELBAKWaterBottle" pid='13080' dateline='1526217165:

ryantheco" pid='13078' dateline='1526214649:

CAMELBAKWaterBottle" pid='13031' dateline='1526173073:

Roughly 10weeks out from finishing what would be a 8-9 month blast and cruise session…
Curious as to what would be an appropriate PCT for this length of cycle.

I Have quite a bit of HCG, Aromasin, Nolvadex and Clomid on hand…
15,000iu HCG to play with
2000mg Nolvadex on hand
5000mg Clomid on hand
787.5mg Aromasin on hand (63x 12.5mg caps)
Can get more of any or all if necessary.

Remaining cycles is as follows:
4weeks 500mg/wk Test-E (12.5mg Aromasin EOD)
2weeks 375mg/wk Test-E (12.5mg Aromasin EOD - E3D)
2 Weeks 250mg/wk Test-E (10mg Aromasin EOD - E3D)
2 Weeks 150mg/wk Test-E (10mg Aromasin EOD-E3D)

Now here comes the debate:
Do I start running HCG now throughout the remainder of cycle at 250-500IU until completion and add a 10-14 day HCG Blast at the end as well?
OR
Hold off on all HCG usage until the end and commit to a hefty 14-21 day blast?
During HCG blast I have read to use low dosage of Nolva or Aromasin… What are peoples opinion here on the matter?
Regarding the start of HCG Blast - what are most peoples opinions on when to start? 7 days after last pin? 14 days? sooner than 7 days? There is quite a lot of ambiguity on this topic it would appear.

Lastly after the completion of HCG blast what should serm therapy look like?
Any thoughts on the regimen that follows?
Nolvadex: wk 1-3 40mg/day, wk 4-5 20mg/day, wk6 20mg or 10mg/day
Clomid: wk 1-3 100mg/day, wk 4-6 50mg/day

What does SST think?

IMO, you don’t really need to taper down, especially going that slow. You might have some issues dealing with E2 sides - but it’s up to you if you want to do that.

I would run HCG now through the end of your cycle, then run the 10-14 day blast with whatever you have left.

No need for Nolvadex during HCG. Take aromasin as you would normally - maybe add a bit more when you are still running test (I.E. up the aromasin from 10 to 12.5 for the last for weeks, and the run 10mg/E3.5D during your 2 weeks off if you are still running HCG.

Start HCG blast the week after last pin. So if you pin Mon/Thurs, start on Sunday or Monday (whenever you start your weeks). Then run it for 10-14 days. After 2 weeks, start PCT and no more HCG injections.

PCT I would go for:

Nolva: 60/40/40/20/20/20
Clomid: 100/50/50/25/25/25

Disclaimer: I am currently BnC, this is just the protocol I would follow if I had to PCT in the near future.

Appreciate your input, just curious because i’ve never seen it mentioned the way you suggested but regarding serm therapy…
Why 60/40/40/20/20/20 for nolva
and 100/50/50/25/25/25 for clomid?
I’ve seen quite a variety of serm therapy suggestions and this isnt far off from many i’ve seen i’m just curious as to why heavier on nolva than clomid?

Also appreciate e2 input, I don’t see this being an issue for me as i’ve never struggled with it. BF % down between 7-8% currently as well so that should help too… But I will be mindful nevertheless. Thank you

Mostly because Nolva is basically just as effectively, but doesn’t have nearly as many sides. Some people even say to drop the clomid if the sides are too hard (i.e. vision issues/mood swings). Higher clomid == higher chance of sides, so you could even drop the clomid to 25/25/25/25/25/25 if you want to be on the really safe side.

For nolva, the only real sides I that are common is brain fog and IGF being reduced. So the sides are pretty mild, and it can be run pretty much worry free. You could add another 2-4 weeks of 20mg/day nolva if you wanted to be safe and you had extra on hand.

The E2 issues is more that it will be hard to gauge your AI dosage. You run the risk of having high E2 one week, then crashing it the next. Especially if you are adding HCG.

 

[RipRich69]

CAMELBAKWaterBottle" pid='13043' dateline='1526178047:

10gramsuvtrenEOD" pid='13042' dateline='1526177688:

CAMELBAKWaterBottle" pid='13035' dateline='1526173563:

RipRich69" pid='13033' dateline='1526173417:

CAMELBAKWaterBottle" pid='13031' dateline='1526173073:

Roughly 10weeks out from finishing what would be a 8-9 month blast and cruise session…
Curious as to what would be an appropriate PCT for this length of cycle.

I Have quite a bit of HCG, Aromasin, Nolvadex and Clomid on hand…
15,000iu HCG to play with
2000mg Nolvadex on hand
5000mg Clomid on hand
787.5mg Aromasin on hand (63x 12.5mg caps)
Can get more of any or all if necessary.

Remaining cycles is as follows:
4weeks 500mg/wk Test-E (12.5mg Aromasin EOD)
2weeks 375mg/wk Test-E (12.5mg Aromasin EOD - E3D)
2 Weeks 250mg/wk Test-E (10mg Aromasin EOD - E3D)
2 Weeks 150mg/wk Test-E (10mg Aromasin EOD-E3D)

Now here comes the debate:
Do I start running HCG now throughout the remainder of cycle at 250-500IU until completion and add a 10-14 day HCG Blast at the end as well?
OR
Hold off on all HCG usage until the end and commit to a hefty 14-21 day blast?
During HCG blast I have read to use low dosage of Nolva or Aromasin… What are peoples opinion here on the matter?
Regarding the start of HCG Blast - what are most peoples opinions on when to start? 7 days after last pin? 14 days? sooner than 7 days? There is quite a lot of ambiguity on this topic it would appear.

Lastly after the completion of HCG blast what should serm therapy look like?
Any thoughts on the regimen that follows?
Nolvadex: wk 1-3 40mg/day, wk 4-5 20mg/day, wk6 20mg or 10mg/day
Clomid: wk 1-3 100mg/day, wk 4-6 50mg/day

What does SST think?

I have no experience with this, but I am just curious for your reasoning to come off?

Things in life have changed direction unfortunately lol…

also fucking duh

Solid response…? Didn’t feel like I needed to explain myself and choices lol. It’s no ones business but mine.

If we could keep all “bull shit” style commenting to a minimum that would be great. No opinion on question/topic at hand? Move to next thread… It’s really that simple.

Lose the attitude bud just a question… if anything me replying bumps your thread

 

[Bearslovecheese]

HCG now 500iu three times a week now through the 4 week elimination period before you begin PCT drugs after last pin. Nolva/Clomid has been mentioned. There has been anecdotal evidence that Nolva alone can actually be superior to nolva/clomid, but if you don’t suffer sides then clomid can make sense even if it’s just 25mg/day or EoD dosing. Longer the blast the longer the PCT so I would probably plan on a few weeks of 40mg/day and plan on many weeks of 20mg. Honestly, I would do 2-3 weeks of 40, then do 20mg for 4-5 weeks and get a total testosterone panel done to see where you’re at and whether you need to continue the SERM therapy. This will be 3 months since last pin if you do 3 weeks and 5 weeks respectively combined with the 4 week elimination period of Test E. If you’re super concerned, you could get some HMG in additon to the HCG (HCG = LH analog, HMG = FSH + LH Analog). Don’t think you need to go so far as tript at this point though.

 

[Nuts2Butts]

Agree on starting HCG right away.

If you can get your hands on ralox or torem, you may want to. 8 weeks of clomid/nolva is going to be a trip. Backing off to a lighter serm once your HPTA has been started may make for a smoother ride.

 

[Bearslovecheese]

Can you share what it is about Torem that makes it better? I’ve seen it shared a couple times, especially Sasquatch saying it was his favorite by and far.

Why Ralox? It’s mostly site specific to breast tissue Estro receptors, are you saying run it in conjunction with the Torem to avoid any estro rebound-induced gyno flareups?

 

[everywhereatonce]

Here’s what I prefer.

Start HCG now. 250-500IU EOD, drop down to E3D once it’s working. You’ll know it’s working when your balls start to ache later in the day after the shot. If you don’t feel anything at 250IU, start ramping it up towards 500. You might have to increase your AI a bit when you start HCG.

No need to blast HCG at the end if it’s working. Only blast HCG if you haven’t been using it on cycle and you’re trying to start everything back up at once in a week or two.

Take your last HCG shot when you take your first dose of nolva. No need for both clomid and nolva. Most people don’t even need 40mg nolva. Just run 20mg/day for 3-4 weeks, then get bloods. If your levels are good then then taper to 10mg for another 2-3 weeks, then come off. If they’re not good then stay on 20mg another few weeks before tapering.

 

[Nuts2Butts]

Bearslovecheese" pid='13180' dateline='1526265939:

Can you share what it is about Torem that makes it better? I’ve seen it shared a couple times, especially Sasquatch saying it was his favorite by and far.

Why Ralox? It’s mostly site specific to breast tissue Estro receptors, are you saying run it in conjunction with the Torem to avoid any estro rebound-induced gyno flareups?

Clomid is a first generation SERM from the 1960s. Nolva is 2nd gen from the 1980s. Torem and Ralox are 3rd gen from the late 90s. With each generation, the serm tends to become a bit less powerful, but the sides also drop a lot. If you run 100mg of Clomid a day for a few months, your test levels can hit 1,500+. Nolva just won’t do that, no matter how much you take. Torem is vastly weaker. Even using 200mg, your test levels will never go over 700 from the logs I’ve read. It’s basically side effect free for me, and that seems to match most people’s experience.

I’ve used Torem for a mini PCT from an oral-only cycle, and a Sarm cycle(both before I started injecting) and I felt 100% normal when taking it.

I still like Torem for coming off of AAS - but not initially. Torem is side effect free(or close to it), but it’s not very strong. Clomid and Nolva are just stronger, and they do a better job of jump starting a sleeping HPTA.

I don’t get the same nasty sides as some people on Clomid, but it’s not great for me, and I don’t like how I feel. So the sooner I can go off Clomid and switch to Torem, the better. I feel completely normal on Torem.
I’ve never used Nolva. I have no personal experience with it, only stuff I’ve read. It tends to have fewer sides in general, but still sounds harsher than Torem or Ralox.

Ralox and Torem both came out in 1997. They’re both weaker than Nolva or Clomid. Ralox is a little weaker than Torem, but it has a similar ability to stimulate LH production. Torem caps out at about 700 total t, and I think Ralox is closer to 600. So it is weaker, but can still be used for the tail end of PCT from what I’ve seen.

I’ve only personally used Torem and Clomid. But I would use Ralox in Torem’s place if I ran out of Torem. Or if I could easily get Ralox but not Torem. I consider Ralox to be a very adequate substitute for Torem.